Gauging interest in 100 octane race gas

[MattR]

Thats right :twisted: i am exploring options to buy a drum of race gas, does anyone else have any interest? Post here and I'll reply with details as they become available.

[sperry]

Thats right :twisted: i am exploring options to buy a drum of race gas, does anyone else have any interest? Post here and I'll reply with details as they become available.

Uhhhh... unless you get the car tuned for it, you're not gonna notice much, even if you buy enough to run a tank or two of it before an autoX to let the ECU adjust.

[MattR]

Really? I read somewhere else that people noticed performance gains with 100 in their Sti in stock trim, but maybe its not worth it. Hmm? I'll need to read up a bit.

[sperry]

Really? I read somewhere else that people noticed performance gains with 100 in their Sti in stock trim, but maybe its not worth it. Hmm? I'll need to read up a bit.

Probably, if you ran it all the time. But, if you just toss 5 gallons in on race day, I don't know how the ECU is going to ramp up and provide you with any extra power.

A cheaper alternative, though more controversial, would be to run toluene as an additive, but again you'd have to run it all the time:

http://www.elektro.com/~audi/audi/toluene.html

[MattR]

Sweet...i doubt I'll pursue the race gas thing then

[sperry]

Sweet...i doubt I'll pursue the race gas thing then

Actually, after reading that link s'more, it looks like the toluene will run about $2.50 to $3.00 per gallon of 93 octane you mix... so in addition to the $2.00/gallon cost of the 91 you're mixing with, you're right at the $5.00/gallon 100 octane costs. :shock: Might as well just plan on filling up with the real stuff if you can get it for $5/gallon!

[tysonK]

Race gas sounds cool. it's got that going for it.

[Kevin M]

Group buy on race gas would be sweet. 2-3 of us could easily use up a drum in one weekend, so I will be initiating some sort of race gas buy, even if it's by myself. Unless Stead and the other sites have it at the pump...

[AtomicLabMonkey]

I don't know about your cars, but with a system like mine the extra octane is just a safety factor... I'm gonna be watching my car real closely this summer, after going through the 105* Atwater event last year where it almost blew up it was pinging so bad. If I can't get rid of the pinging any other way this summer I'll start using 100 octane.

[sperry]

I don't know about your cars, but with a system like mine the extra octane is just a safety factor... I'm gonna be watching my car real closely this summer, after going through the 105* Atwater event last year where it almost blew up it was pinging so bad. If I can't get rid of the pinging any other way this summer I'll start using 100 octane.

Well you could dial back the advance a touch right? You'd think with the extra flow of your new intake, even if you backed off a bit on the timing, you'd still be making more power than you were before the intake manifold, right?

Or you could just come and race with us up here! The altitude will easily stop your pinging! :lol:

As far as race gas, I believe there's a place out in sparks that sells 100. But unless you're like Kevin who will have a race gas ECU map that you can easily switch over to, you'll need to run it 24/7 so the ECU will adapt to it. That's expensive... pretty much plan on doubling your monthly gas expenses... and I'm still not sure you'd notice a lot of power.

[AtomicLabMonkey]

Well you could dial back the advance a touch right? You'd think with the extra flow of your new intake, even if you backed off a bit on the timing, you'd still be making more power than you were before the intake manifold, right?

Or you could just come and race with us up here! The altitude will easily stop your pinging! :lol:

As far as race gas, I believe there's a place out in sparks that sells 100. But unless you're like Kevin who will have a race gas ECU map that you can easily switch over to, you'll need to run it 24/7 so the ECU will adapt to it. That's expensive... pretty much plan on doubling your monthly gas expenses... and I'm still not sure you'd notice a lot of power.

Yeah I could retard the timing a little, I don't really want to though since it's already set at the stock 10* BTDC. I'll have to play with it in the next few months as the temperature heats up at events. I'm thinking about getting an adjustable fuel pressure regulator to have a little extra tuning tool.

I'm not sure if you were talking to me or the other WRX guys with that last part... my ECU doesn't adapt to anything. :lol: If I use higher octane it'll be pretty easy, just run the tank down to 2 or 3 gallons before an event, mix in an equal amount of 100 oct., and I've got 95-96 insta-octane for the race. The Monument auto parts store here in Livermore sells the Union-76 "Cool-Blue" 100 octane race gas.

[sperry]

I'm not sure if you were talking to me or the other WRX guys with that last part... my ECU doesn't adapt to anything. :lol: If I use higher octane it'll be pretty easy, just run the tank down to 2 or 3 gallons before an event, mix in an equal amount of 100 oct., and I've got 95-96 insta-octane for the race. The Monument auto parts store here in Livermore sells the Union-76 "Cool-Blue" 100 octane race gas.

I was talking to the WRX guys. I'm surprised you car even *has* an ECU. :P

[AtomicLabMonkey]

I was talking to the WRX guys. I'm surprised you car even *has* an ECU. :P

Hahaha... EEC-IV 0wnz j00!

[Dean]

I have an empty 30Gal, and an unopened but 3 year old 30Gal of 100 octane unleaded in my garage as well as the pump thingy etc... Don't ask.

I have two connections for getting them filled/refilled if we want. I need to burn up the 3 year old stuff in my truck or something this summer...

The extra octane only does you any good if you are experiencing knock/ping, or could do so if your ECU would let you.

I'm not sure even resetting your ECU and running it all the time would make a difference in a stock car or even anything STX legal at Reno altitude.

[ZER026D]

There is a way to make your ECU adjust your timing in 5 seconds. All you have to do is get going on a some where that there is no cars. First get going about 30-35 in 3rd gear. Hear is the tricky part you need to do a little left foot braking. Your going to try to keep your speed at 30-35 while building 6-8 psi of boost for 5-8 seconds. Your timing will advance up to 12 degrees. We tested this on my car with VAGCOM on pump gas in the middle of summer in Arizona we saw mine advance 6 degrees. The WRX is one of the first cheap car's with a octain senser you just have to adjust it. That is why the dealer says you car will get fast in time and why people say there car is slower after reseting the ECU. :D

[sperry]

There is a way to make your ECU adjust your timing in 5 seconds. All you have to do is get going on a some where that there is no cars. First get going about 30-35 in 3rd gear. Hear is the tricky part you need to do a little left foot braking. Your going to try to keep your speed at 30-35 while building 6-8 psi of boost for 5-8 seconds. Your timing will advance up to 12 degrees. We tested this on my car with VAGCOM on pump gas in the middle of summer in Arizona we saw mine advance 6 degrees. The WRX is one of the first cheap car's with a octain senser you just have to adjust it. That is why the dealer says you car will get fast in time and why people say there car is slower after reseting the ECU. :D

There's more to that trick... Shiv uses it to get max the IAM before tuning, because tuning w/ a low IAM could mean the car will blow up later if the IAM advances:


Just a little trick that has been shown to accelerate the factory ECU's ignition timing learning process.

Background: There is something called "Ignition Advance Multiplier". It represents, by some complicated algorithm, the average learned positive knock correction applied to the ignition maps. It's represented in 1/8th degrees increments. 1 being the lowest and 16 being the highest (1/8 to 2 degrees in absolute terms).

The "happier" (knock free) the car is, the higher the number will be. Conversely, the lower it is, the more knock prone it is. This number, after ECU reset ore ECU swap defaults to 8 and usually creeps up to 16 (if well mapped) through normal driving. Depending on driving characteristics, this can happen within a few hours or a few weeks. Well, here's a way to make it happen in about 5 seconds ....

First: With the car fully warmed up, reset the ECU. This can be done by killing power the ECU or by simply pulling off the neg. battery terminal and pressing the brake pedal for a couple of seconds.

Second: Drive to a nice open road without traffic. Don't go on boost until you get there. Put the car into gear (3rd gear works the best) bring the revs up to 2600rpm. Push the go pedal down slightly so boost stays right around 2-4psi. You will need to MAINTAIN 2500rpm and 2-5psi for approx 5 seconds. You can do this by left-foot braking gently as to prevent acceleration. During these few seconds, the advance multiplier (which you can't see so you'll have to trust me) will go from 8, to 12 and then to 16. Works like a charm. And on our reflashed ECU, is worth an immediate 10-20 horsepower

In an attempt to save a lot of dyno time between reflashes (when the advance multiplier resets itself), I do this little trick after every reflash. In a typical dyno session, it's not unusual to reflash the same car up to 5 times. On the dyno, all I need to do is tell the dyno to hold revs to 2600rpm. Then I just lay on the throttle until I see a few psi of boost... Bingo!

Warning: This little trick artificially speeds up the learning process. This is only a good thing if the re-mapped ECU is mapped properly. If there are trouble-spots where knock is present, this trick will make it even more present. So be careful!

Cheers,
shiv
www.vishnutuning.com


However, I bet all of us up here at altitude are already driving around with a maxed IAM, since the lack of oxygen means it's hard to knock, and the multiplier would already advance just from daily driving. That's why 100 octane would have a very limited effect unless you can tune the car for less fuel, more boost, or more advance outside of the factory IAM advance.

[AtomicLabMonkey]

I have an empty 30Gal, and an unopened but 3 year old 30Gal of 100 octane unleaded in my garage as well as the pump thingy etc... Don't ask.

Hope that 3 yr old stuff isn't expensive varnish by now... :lol:

[Dean]

Hope that 3 yr old stuff isn't expensive varnish by now... :lol:Since it is in a sealed inert gas filled drum, it is probably still OK for something. I figured I try it in the lawn mower first, and then maybe the F-150 if the lawn mower runs fine...

Otherwise, I'm not sure how you get rid of 30 gallons of varnish...

[ArthurS]

Otherwise, I'm not sure how you get rid of 30 gallons of varnish...

Pryamid Lake Bonfire. Ill bring the beer.

[AtomicLabMonkey]

*WHOOOMP*

"Whoa, where did Art's eyebrows go?" :lol:

[ArthurS]

*WHOOOMP*

"Whoa, where did Art's eyebrows go?" :lol:

Funny things is that has almost happened once. Little to much gasoline on the palets (sp?).

[ZER026D]

My friend almost started a forest fire like that.

[sperry]

*WHOOOMP*

"Whoa, where did Art's eyebrows go?" :lol:

Funny things is that has almost happened once. Little to much gasoline on the palets (sp?).

I blew up a bunch of propane from our gas grill in my face like that when I was 12 (the stupid lighter clicker thing was on the fritz). Singed off my eyebrows and burnt about an inch off the hair over my forehead. It also knocked me back about 5 feet... 'course I don't know how much of that was from the explosion, or from my reaction to get the fuck away from the explosion. I was loud enough that my mom heard it inside and came out to see wth happened. :lol:

[Kevin M]

BUMP... so where is the place in Sparks that sells the 100octane gas? Once I get my conversion done I'm gonna want to know...

[MattR]

BUMP... so where is the place in Sparks that sells the 100octane gas? Once I get my conversion done I'm gonna want to know...

Its in Reno, a friend of mine has to call this one guy, etc. If you really want some, I'll look into it again.

[ArthurS]

I have the guys number at my office. If Matt, can't get it before I can, I'll post it.

[Dean]

OK, I'm bumping this to see if anybody knows of any actual gas stations in the Sacramento area that have 100 Octane at the pumps.

I know there used to be some 76 stations that did. Obviously, Thunderhill, and Sear's point do, but any other on the street locations?

Maybe on the way to Atwater? :-)

[Kevin M]

According to Scott@S-Squared, there are no stations here with 100 at the pump. :(

[WRXRallyBlue]

You can get 100 at the 76 station on plumb and lakeside. It's not at the pump but they've got drums of it. 110, too.

[sti deede]

You can get 100 at the 76 station on plumb and lakeside. It's not at the pump but they've got drums of it. 110, too.
Wow that's interesting....Is that station still open? I thought that one closed a while back.

[WRXRallyBlue]

Yeah it's still open. The drums of 100 and 110 are the same price, too :D

[MikeSTI]

Yeah it's still open. The drums of 100 and 110 are the same price, too :Dtime to go buy some gas contianor's :twisted:

[Pat R.]

Casazza Oil on Commercial Row 323-1866.

[AtomicLabMonkey]

The only 110 octane I've seen from U-76 is leaded. Make damn sure when you buy race gas that you're getting unleaded, not leaded.

[sperry]

The only 110 octane I've seen from U-76 is leaded. Make damn sure when you buy race gas that you're getting unleaded, not leaded.

Last time I was at Thunderhill, I was talking with one of the instructors that told me "yeah, my student just put a full tank of 110 leaded in his street car". :lol:

I guess he probably didn't hurt the car since he realized it before he started it, so if they siphoned the tank dry and refilled w/ unleaded he'd probably be okay.

[Kevin M]

I thought leaded gas was supposed to come from a larger nozzle that doesn't fit in unleaded fill tubes?

[Nick Koan]

I don't think the same rules apply when you are pumping gas from barrels.

[Kevin M]

Thunder Hill has 93, 100, and 110 leaded at the pump.

[khail19]

Wow that's interesting....Is that station still open? I thought that one closed a while back.

It was the Shell on Plumb that closed a while ago. The 76 is open.

[WRXRallyBlue]

The only 110 octane I've seen from U-76 is leaded. Make damn sure when you buy race gas that you're getting unleaded, not leaded.

That's only a problem if you have cats, though I'm sure most of us do :(

[MattR]

The only 110 octane I've seen from U-76 is leaded. Make damn sure when you buy race gas that you're getting unleaded, not leaded.

That's only a problem if you have cats, though I'm sure most of us do :(

Are you Sure?

[Dean]

It's not cats, lead destroys O2 sensors as well as not being good for cats...

[Kevin M]

It's not cats, lead destroys O2 sensors as well as not being good for cats...

Yup.

[WRXRallyBlue]

O..

[Evo Mike]

i would be interested once i get the 100 octane map tuned.. what about the 5 gallon drums? i've done some looking and there are a few places in reno that sell those.. are they worth it?

[tysonK]

So the latest Sport Compact Car had a big article on Octane Boosters and Toulene that was pretty comprehensive.

I'll try to remember to bring the issue to the meet.

[Kevin M]

Yeah, they claim that a couple off-the-shelf type things raised CA 91 to like 92.7 and 93.0 or something.

[sperry]

http://www.hitimewine.com/istarimages/p/p-101410.gif

[bruspeed]

So the latest Sport Compact Car had a big article on Octane Boosters and Toulene that was pretty comprehensive.

I'll try to remember to bring the issue to the meet.

Yes, awesome writeup, ugly broad in the pictures, but good information none the less.

[Dean]

Nudge...

So, I've heard stories of new sources in Reno... Can anyone confirm any sources of 100 unleaded?

One was an actual pump at a Sonoco(?) on 4th st. near sparks. Checked that and didn't find anything obvious.

Scott mentioned somewhere that you had to pay inside and "drive round back"... Washoe oil maybe?

[wrxkidid]

i dont know if the sonoco is at the pump but i know they have it.
http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=45181&page=76
go down to post #1131 tahts where they start talking about it.

[Kevin M]

Pics or shens Robby. :p

[cody]

I've got a few big cans of Torco for when it gets uber hot this summer.

I was also surprised to hear about a Sunoco in town. I searched google maps and sunoco.com and got nothing.

[wrxkidid]

kevin you confuse me.
tomorrow im gonna ask micheals power sports if they can get 100+ unleaded. im pretty sure they can. ill keep you posted.
that would be in 50 gal drums though or maybe smaller who knows.

[cody]

i dont know if the sonoco is at the pump but i know they have it.
http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=45181&page=76
go down to post #1131 tahts where they start talking about it.
borked link?

[wrxkidid]

hmm. works for me.
maybe a repost would help?
http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=45181&page=76

[MikeK]

Allied washoe on 4th st, take the prater/4th st ext from I-80 and head west, they are on the south side of the road next to the railroad.

Map (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=reno,nv&ie=UTF8&ll=39.533989,-119.783608&spn=0.001837,0.003369&t=h&z=19&om=1)

$6.50 a gallon but for every 50 gals you buy you get 5 gals free. The first time you buy it ask for Sarah and tell her you want to start a race gas card.

They sell Sunoco 100 GT unleaded, they have a big tank with an electric pump out the back. They are open 7 or 8 am - 5 pm weekdays, and 8-12 saturday. They will fill a container or just put it straight into your car.

[cody]

hmm. works for me.
maybe a repost would help?
http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=45181&page=76

Nah, you probably have to join up and then you get a cookie...

[Kevin M]

It doesn't require registration to view threads.

[cody]

Well then I broke the internet. :(

[wrxkidid]

cody fails at life. :lol:

[Kevin M]

Well then I broke the internet. :(

Practice your clicking technique. I once had to improve mine to view a link Tyson posted. True story.

cody fails at life. :lol:

Still no pics. High danger of me calling shenanigans at this point. Because as we all know, if you make a statemnt on the internet and don't post pics, it's not true.

[cody]

I can't even open their home page. They must have preemptively blocked me once Robby told them all how much faster my car is. :P

[wrxkidid]

yea somethin like that.

i guess your right then kevin.

cody can i get a ride-along if im in your same run-group and the spacing is ok?

[cody]

Fo shizzle but I'm still a noob.

[Kevin M]

yea somethin like that.

i guess your right then kevin.

cody can i get a ride-along if im in your same run-group and the spacing is ok?

Sorry, I forgot the :p sarcasm tag...

[wrxkidid]

well micheals power sports sells 5 gal drums of VP. both actane levels so id say 100 and 104? is that what the vp stuff is? they didnt say which they just said they sell 5 gal. drums of both vp gases. i was in 7-11 when i talked to the guy so he didnt know the price off hand.

[bxracer69]

I know the Napa in Carson sells it, there are always the little drums inside fo race gas sitting up by the counter. I would call ahead to make sure they have it though before makeing the trip.

[dknv]

MikeK ftw.
Though, didn't we have a thread on the semantics of whether 100octane at this elevation even helps?

[MikeK]

MikeK ftw.
Though, didn't we have a thread on the semantics of whether 100octane at this elevation even helps?

Without a dyno it would be hard to say, but it was worth 55 horsepower at the wheels at sea level :devil:

[sperry]

MikeK ftw.
Though, didn't we have a thread on the semantics of whether 100octane at this elevation even helps?
It's not just the power gains as it is the safety gains. The 91 we get from CA is crap, and it varies in crappiness... sometimes it's just normal horse-piss, other times, it's like zebra urine.

Race gas has a much lower chance of being off much from the label, so there's less chance of getting a "bad" tank and boning the motor. However, running 100 in a car tuned for 91 will reduce top performance slightly. The best gas I ever used was the time Eric and I put race 92 in his STi at Laguna Seca... the car ran like a champ!

So race gas is really good for safety reasons alone, but if your car is tuned for 100... then like Mike says... it can be worth a lot in terms of performance as well.

[AtomicLabMonkey]

I can buy all the 100-unleaded I want at the pump about 3/4mi from my house. It figures that I would move someplace where it's super easy to get when I no longer have any need/interest in using it. :lol:

[sperry]

I can buy all the 100-unleaded I want at the pump about 3/4mi from my house. It figures that I would move someplace where it's super easy to get when I no longer have any need/interest in using it. :lol:
I wonder how much would I have to have you send me for the shipping cost to be less than the west coast markup. Probably enough that we'd be violating all sorts of interstate commerce laws and would need a triple trailer rig and a driver to haul it. :lol:

[AtomicLabMonkey]

I don't know what the price is out there now, but the 100 was about $5.70/gal at the pump here a couple weeks ago. :eek: I'll stick to regular, thanks...

[sperry]

I don't know what the price is out there now, but the 100 was about $5.70/gal at the pump here a couple weeks ago. :eek: I'll stick to regular, thanks...
Or you can pay $7.50/gal at the track here. :mad:

[cody]

http://www.need4speedpower.com/torco.html

[MikeK]

Or you can pay $7.50/gal at the track here. :mad:

Really? I heard rumours of $9 a gal at RFR from someone at SCCA, maybe Art Majors or Jim U, I can't remember.

[sperry]

Really? I heard rumours of $9 a gal at RFR from someone at SCCA, maybe Art Majors or Jim U, I can't remember.
:lol: I think I paid $7.50/gal the last time I was there... which was last year. I wouldn't be surprised if it's more now... but $9/gal is out of hand. That's more than *twice* the cost of 91!

[A1337STI]

Quite a while ago i bought a 1 or 2 gallon container of toluene at a home depot, i don't recall the price but it was really cheap. Gas by law in the us is allowed to be ~ 55% toluene, (and higher in other countries) and its like 114 octane. i mixed it up so i'de have 96 and ran it for 2 tanks. It felt smoother, but then a month later i had a Fuel injector problem. (which i think is unrelated since only 1 of the 4 had any problems, And Since the fuel injector treatment subaru wants STI owners to do every 20K miles uses almost entirely toluene as the cleaner)

[random theory - if the added octane let my car boost higher than the fuel injectors would have to inject more fuel then ever before and maybe one of them wasn't up to the task ... I did do a an ecu reset directly after doing that so its possible, or reads well to me ... ]

But the coincidence was enough for me to not want to try that again. I think it was $10 for a gallon, and around $40 for a 5 gallon bucket. Great deal considering its 114 octane, Horrible deal if it does cause damage to things (really really shouldn't thought, considering gas is mostly toluene already)

But gas is formulated to burn well and just mixing in a larger part toluene with out knowing what other catalysts are used and in what amounts, could easily lead to less power.

[Dean]

And Since the fuel injector treatment subaru wants STI owners to do every 20K miles uses almost entirely toluene as the cleaner)
...
Great deal considering its 114 octaneHmm... I didn't know we were supposed to do that... Where is that maintenance schedule....

Are you sure Tolulene alone has an octane ratting? And why do flammable in inflammable mean the same thing??? Stupid english language...

[sperry]

[random theory - if the added octane let my car boost higher than the fuel injectors would have to inject more fuel then ever before and maybe one of them wasn't up to the task ... I did do a an ecu reset directly after doing that so its possible, or reads well to me ... ]


Higher octane gas will not "let your car boost higher" unless you've reprogrammed the ECU to allow higher boost. Using an octane booster will do *nothing* for the car unless it was already pulling timing due to poor gas. And at our altitude, you can nearly run a stock STi on 89, meaning 91 is already *plenty* high.

[MattR]

Anybody know where I can get some @(!& so this thread will make sense.

[Dean]

Anybody know where I can get some acid so this thread will make sense.HCl or H2SO4? Pool supply store for the former, finger down your throat for the later. :P

[sperry]

HCl or H2SO4? Pool supply store for the former, finger down your throat for the later. :P
This kind:
Lysergic acid diethylamide
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/af/LSD-2D%2C_3D.png/300px-LSD-2D%2C_3D.png

[Nick Koan]

Hmm... I didn't know we were supposed to do that... Where is that maintenance schedule....

Are you sure Tolulene alone has an octane ratting? And why do flammable in inflammable mean the same thing??? Stupid english language...

Damn the latin language for screwing up our english. The prefix 'in' can mean both 'within' and 'not' so the latin adjective inflammare (with the english suffix -able) describes an object which is combustible (can catch fire) not non-combustible.

Totally random theory, but back before the atomic elements were discovered, the brightest minds thought there were five elements, earth, air, fire, water and Captain Planet. Every object contained one or more of these elements. When something was lit on fire, it was releasing the internal fire. Fire wasn't something that happened to the object, fire was being released from the object and the flames are representations of the fire being released. The ash was an after effect of fire violently releasing itself into the wild. The thinking went something like ...

I have a stick that isn't burning (stick 1).
I have a stick that is burning (stick 2).
I put the stick 2 next to stick 1.
Now stick 1 is burning.
I take away stick 2, but stick 1 continues to burn.
Quod Erat Demonstrandum: both sticks contain the element of fire, because otherwise stick 1 would stop burning when stick 2 was removed.

Therefore, if something had the inner flame, it was liable to catch on fire if it got around other elements who's inner fire was being released.

Strangely enough, flammable wasn't even a word up until last century. The words inflammable and non-inflammable were used to describe objects that were combustible and non-combustible respectively. The French use the word ininflammable to describe non-combustible materials. How weird is that. The UK and the US have since popularly adopted flammable and non-flammable (or combustible and non-combustible) as safety guidelines, but inflammable and non-inflammable are still in usage. Its a language drift, and I bet we'll see inflammable and non-flammable fall out of popular usage altogether in the next 100 years or so.

[sperry]

Just don't say "irregardless", or Nick will wear out the internet looking for its entomology.

[Dean]

Damn the latin language for screwing up our english...Um, it was an inrhetorical question... :)

[cody]

This kind:
Lysergic acid diethylamide
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/af/LSD-2D%2C_3D.png/300px-LSD-2D%2C_3D.png

This is the only LSD I'm currently interested in:

http://worldoneperformance.com/images/products/quaifediffa.jpg

[Nick Koan]

Um, it was an inrhetorical question... :)

I believe the word you are looking for is irrhetorical.

[Nick Koan]

Just don't say "irregardless", or Nick will wear out the internet looking for its entomology.

What does the study of insects have to do with anything? :p

[sperry]

What does the study of insects have to do with anything? :p
Damn you spell checker!!

:lol:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etymology

[Kevin M]

What does the study of insects have to do with anything? :p

Fire ants? :lol:

[Kevin M]

Oh, and CAPTAAAAAINN PLANNEEEET! (www.youtube.com/v/QYFu__Q9ASU)

[sperry]

Okay folks, I think I've got a line on 100 octane unleaded... I ended up doing the leg work accidentally:

I was looking for a transfer tank for the bed of my truck, but after going to like 5 places on a wild goose chase, I ended up at Summit to grab another two 5 gallon cans. Mike Sesario (sp?) works there and I got to bullshitting with him about race fuel. He pointed me to Rich Davis Racing who's up in Golden Valley. I called Rich, and asked about buying some 17 gallon cans of gas. Rich's order just went in earlier today, but he's calling back to see if he can't add some 100 unleaded to the order.

Either way, Rich said he never gets requests for unleaded 100, but I told Rich there might be 5 or 6 of us that would be interested in it, which sparked enough interest for him to consider keeping a 55 gallon drum on hand.

I'm still planning on getting two 17 gal drums for my house, that way when one's out, I can start on the second while I go refill the first out of Rich's big drum.

As far as pricing, he asked what Allied Washoe was charging. I told him $6.50/gal and he laughed because he's selling his 110 leaded for $5.95/gal and implied he'd be able to beat the AW price pretty easily.

The drawback of course it the trip to Golden Valley, but if everyone's interested in doing the same deal as me w/ the 17 gal drums, we can simply load up the truck every now and again with the empty cans and head up there to refill them. The drums cost $30, with a $25 return fee if you trade 'em in... or you can simply refill the same drum over and over, and save yourself the $5.

The alternative is buying a 55 gal drum for the garage, and getting a forklift to deliver it (they weight like 350 lbs, no way I'm unloading that off my truck) and are a little to big to be safe at the house IMO.

If anyone else is interested (Mike? Dean? Matt?) let me know, and I'll fill you in on the details. Remember, even if you're not tuned for 100, tossing in a few gallons per tank when you're out at the race track is a good idea for motor safety, especially when it's hot.

As far as this weekend, I think I'm going to be hauling out six 5 gallon cans of 100 from Allied Washoe, just to avoid as much of the track's $8/gal gas as possible. But I'm guessing that won't be quite enough for a full weekend at the track.

[MikeK]

AW gives you 5 gallons free for every 50 gallons you buy, so it works out to about $5.90 long term and it is really convenient. How much exactly will this new deal cost? Will there be specific times when we can/can't go to get the stuff? Do they have an electric pump or do we have to pump the stuff manually? AW has free candies in a bowl at the front desk, what does this guy have?

[tysonK]

Where at in Golden Valley? Since I live close I can stop by.

[sperry]

AW gives you 5 gallons free for every 50 gallons you buy, so it works out to about $5.90 long term and it is really convenient. How much exactly will this new deal cost? Will there be specific times when we can/can't go to get the stuff? Do they have an electric pump or do we have to pump the stuff manually? AW has free candies in a bowl at the front desk, what does this guy have?
Going to AW is more convenient than just refueling in your own garage?

Plus, if you're in my shoes, where you need more than one tank of gas at a time, AW isn't even a real option. They're only open 'till noon on Saturday. When I'm out of fuel at 5pm Sat, I'm SOL for getting more before Sun, unless I've got a can at home. Right now, I've got 10 gallons of 100. That should be enough to nearly top off the tank in the car. Then I'm going to head over to AW tomorrow w/ my six 5 gal jugs to fill them up. That's 15 + (5*6) = 45 gals of fuel. If my mileage on the 100 octane is similar to my mileage on my old 91 map, that's enough for 4.5 20 minute sessions each day, running me short on fuel over a full weekend. Hopefully, my mileage is a bit better than it was in the past, but I still need a solution for getting large amounts of fuel in manageable sized containers, thus the goal of going with the 17 gal drums.

Even better would be a 60 gallon transfer tank in the back of my truck, so I could just head out to Davis Racing and fill up the truck, and refuel the car off the truck whenever... but I haven't been able to find a local place that sells transfer tanks at any price, let alone something I can afford (online they're like $1600 for one with an electric pump, plus $200 shipping :eek: ).

[Dean]

Just an FYI, I have two 100 octane 30 gallon drums in my garage, one empty and one never opened but likely only good as paint thinner by now.

I also own a drum pump.

Not sure it this helps or not in the grand scheme. They are about as large as one person can manage and get into a pickup.

Scott, you could use the empty and return your new gas cans for this weekend if you want...

I was considering picking up 5-10 gallons of 100 to top my 91 with giving me an honest 93 or so.

[sperry]

I totally forgot you had drums Dean, I thought they went away when you "moved" to Vegas.

My gas bottles are unreturnable, I already filled 'em up in order to top off the WRX tonight. I'll keep the drums/pump in mind, how safe is a drum like that in the bed of a pickup? What are the dimensions? Is it legal to use a drum like that for transporting fuel, or does it need to be sealed or something during transport?

I think my ultimate goal is to get a truckbed transfer tank which would make drums/pumps useless, but a 30 gallon drum might work for this weekend. You coming to the meet tonight Dean? I'll talk to you about it then?

[Dean]

Yes, I'll be there.

Drums are legal and safe to carry in the bed of a truck. Think of them as big metal gas cans. they have two openings both of which are screwed in. (One is big crescent wrench size, the other is medium pipe wrench.) Much less likely to leak than most gas cans IMHO.

Just strap it to one of the front corner's of your bed is best.

[van]

The old full service gas station on pyramid and prater is now a VP station? I saw it on my way to target today. They sell normal (87 octane I presume, it had a cheap price), 93 and 100 octane(no price on the big sign)gas. I should have my clutch/radiator in by wednsday so I'll drive by and see what the prices are. If theyr'e not crazy $ my Jdm ecu would love some 93.

[MPREZIV]

I've heard the 100 is like $6 a gallon.

[Dean]

$6.50 a gallon but for every 50 gals you buy you get 5 gals free. = $5.91 in bulk at Allied Washoe. If you can find it in a pump in the greater Reno/Sparks area for less or not, even, let us know!

[tysonK]

The old full service gas station on pyramid and prater is now a VP station? I saw it on my way to target today. They sell normal (87 octane I presume, it had a cheap price), 93 and 100 octane(no price on the big sign)gas. I should have my clutch/radiator in by wednsday so I'll drive by and see what the prices are. If theyr'e not crazy $ my Jdm ecu would love some 93.

Yeah VP Racing Fuels 87, 93, 100 from the pump self serve. It was $5 for 93 and $6 for 100 last time I was there.

[Kevin M]

So there is 93 at the pump in Sparks? That's pretty sweet.

[Dean]

So there is 93 at the pump in Sparks? That's pretty sweet.I don't know. with 87 at $2.79, 89 at $2.89 and 91 at 2.99, 93 should be $3.09, not $5.00. I can mix 91 and 100 and get something around 95+ for $4.50...

[cody]

^Yup, but if 93 is at the pump and 100 is in the can, you're just paying for the "convenience factor". I've still got a few cans of Torco that I've been spiking my gas with on race days. Race gas is better though.

[Dean]

^Yup, but if 93 is at the pump and 100 is in the can, you're just paying for the "convenience factor". I've still got a few cans of Torco that I've been spiking my gas with on race days. Race gas is better though.Um...

Yeah VP Racing Fuels 87, 93, 100 from the pump self serve. It was $5 for 93 and $6 for 100 last time I was there.

[cody]

Nice.

[van]

= $5.91 in bulk at Allied Washoe. If you can find it in a pump in the greater Reno/Sparks area for less or not, even, let us know!
my buddy with an old ford bucket hotrod went to allied washoe and topped off his tank of 100 with 110. He told me they only sell leaded fuel there and that is why it is cheaper:(

[MikeK]

They sell 100 octane unleaded and 110 leaded

[Dean]

my buddy with an old ford bucket hotrod went to allied washoe and topped off his tank of 100 with 110. He told me they only sell leaded fuel there and that is why it is cheaper:(He is wrong. As Mikek said back in post 57, We are buying their Sunoco 100 GT unleaded. It is clearly labeled as unleaded.

They may sell 100 leaded as well, but it is more likely to be 104 or 110 which are more common leaded octane ratings I beleive.

[van]

He is wrong.
Won't be the first time. I'm gonna go get some on friday then. I need to make a spreadsheet to figure out how much I need too add to get in the mid 90's,atleast better than 91. Sorry I haven't read all the posts, last time I looked at this thread it was on my phone:)

[Dean]

Won't be the first time. I'm gonna go get some on friday then. I need to make a spreadsheet to figure out how much I need too add to get in the mid 90's,atleast better than 91. Sorry I haven't read all the posts, last time I looked at this thread it was on my phone:)No spreadsheet required... Use one of the many Octane calculators out there...

http://www.motorsportsracingfuels.com/OctaneCalculator.html
http://www.ranney.com/~mjr/fuel_blend.html
http://www.csgnetwork.com/octaneratecalc.html (This one has the formulas and more info)

The rest: Google: Octane calculator (http://www.google.com/search?q=octane+calculator&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a)

[van]

cool, Thanks for those Dean

[cody]

Here's the spreadsheet I use. Just leave the Torco at 0.

[MikeK]

I just filled up at allied washoe, the price went up this week, from $6.50 to $7.65 :furious:

I just went over 50 gals though, so have 5 free gals the next time I fill up, so I will be running 100 octane this weekend and at hawthorne, then it looks like I am back to 91 :(

[Kevin M]

$7.65 is too expensive but $6.50 is not? Lolz.

[MikeK]

Correct

[sperry]

Jeez... nice $1.15 price jump. :mad:

[van]

I just filled up at allied washoe, the price went up this week, from $6.50 to $7.65 :furious:

I just went over 50 gals though, so have 5 free gals the next time I fill up, so I will be running 100 octane this weekend and at hawthorne, then it looks like I am back to 91 :(
do you have a perrin front mount? if so I spotted you when I was leaving work.

[MikeK]

do you have a perrin front mount? if so I spotted you when I was leaving work.

no, APS.

[Dewey]

sorry i sound like such a noob, but in the first page of posts i am reading about pinging. whats that?

[Dean]

sorry i sound like such a noob, but in the first page of posts i am reading about pinging. whats that?Pinging=knocking= The air/fuel mixture ignites on it's own prior to the spark plug firing and the explosion bangs into the piston while it is still traveling up in the cylinder and can destroy an engine in short order.

More octane actually reduces the combustibility of gas, not improves it as many people think. That is why using higher octane in an engine not tuned for it usually causes a reduction of power.

[Dewey]

More octane actually reduces the combustibility of gas, not improves it as many people think. That is why using higher octane in an engine not tuned for it usually causes a reduction of power.

good to know, thank you dean.