Round-up! Cars around $16k

[sperry]

Okay, my ex-roommate is looking for a car. He's rather set on a new car, and doesn't want to spend too much, say around $16k out the door.

What do you guys think fits the bill? So far I'm thinking:

Ford Focus SVT
Mazda 3 (Mazdaspeed if you can get 'em in that price range)
Scion tC
Honda Civic Si
Mini Cooper (are the non-S versions that cheap?)
Subaru Impreza RS

He's really leaning towards the Scion, but since they just came out yesterday, I don't know there's really enough info to go on, and prices may be over what they're worth.

I think the Focus SVT is easily the best deal in that lineup. 2700lbs, 170hp, LSD, hatchback, good looks, all for around $15.5k because Ford is attempting to dump their stock of 2004's.

What am I missing? Opinions on the cars listed?

[Dean]

Convince him to get something used that is 2 or so years old so he doesn't take that depreciation, but still gets some warrenty... This will efectively put his vehicle options up to include ones originally priced at about 20K...

What does he want from the car? Performance, gas milage, convertible, hauling, comfortable for 4 adults????

[sperry]

Convince him to get something used that is 2 or so years old so he doesn't take that depreciation, but still gets some warrenty... This will efectively put his vehicle options up to include ones originally priced at about 20K...

What does he want from the car? Performance, gas milage, convertible, hauling, comfortable for 4 adults????

That's what I told him... he could be rolling a WRX, Acura RSX, or any of a bunch of other cars for $16k if he's go a year or two used. However, that's not what he wants.

He's on the board BTW: name is Wuzian... he just don't post much. :lol:

[JC]

This the guy who had the BMW? Is this person into cars? Honestly I'd probably go for the Scion. Probably gonna have some new car quirks, but it's a Toyota so I wouldn't be TOO worried. I've driven a Mazda 3, the shifter is awful. There is no way in hell I would recommend it unless someone is will to mod. SVT Foci are nice, but I'd be too worried about owning a Focus since they are ridden with problems. The new Civic Si is a joke, but an OK car I guess. The RS is a fine car, but honestly a dog in stock form. I definitely wouldn't buy a new RS personally. Base MSRP on a Mini is 16500 w/o taxes and fees. If it were me I'd try to save some extra $$ and get an SRT-4, Scion tC S/C'd, or Cooper S. The extra car you can get for that much money is a lot. Of course you can always add the S/C to the Scion later, another reason I'd buy that.

Also MSRP on a base SE-R is 17.5k. You might be able to find a discounted one for around 16k.

[sperry]

This the guy who had the BMW? Is this person into cars? Honestly I'd probably go for the Scion. Probably gonna have some new car quirks, but it's a Toyota so I wouldn't be TOO worried. I've driven a Mazda 3, the shifter is awful. There is no way in hell I would recommend it unless someone is will to mod. SVT Foci are nice, but I'd be too worried about owning a Focus since they are ridden with problems. The new Civic Si is a joke, but an OK car I guess. The RS is a fine car, but honestly a dog in stock form. I definitely wouldn't buy a new RS personally. Base MSRP on a Mini is 16500 w/o taxes and fees. If it were me I'd try to save some extra $$ and get an SRT-4, Scion tC S/C'd, or Cooper S. The extra car you can get for that much money is a lot. Of course you can always add the S/C to the Scion later, another reason I'd buy that.

This is *not* my current roommate w/ the Bimmer... it's my old roommate's that's got a late '90s Neon w/ a blown head gasket. I don't think he's too interested in the performance aspect of the car, and the SRT-4 is definately off the list. I think he wants something peppy and fun to drive with decent space (so no 2 seaters) and room for a nice system in it.

The reason for this price range is because he's also attemping to buy a house, so "saving extra money" won't help, since it'd just go to the house. He's also not looking for a car that he needs to mod in order to get it the way he likes it... the mods he wants to do are stereo related.

AFAIK, the SVT Focus is head-and-shoulders above all the issues you hear about regarding the regular Foci... it's basically a different car. Actually it's basically a Mazda 3. :lol:

[AtomicLabMonkey]

I think the Focus SVT is easily the best deal in that lineup. 2700lbs, 170hp, LSD, hatchback, good looks, all for around $15.5k because Ford is attempting to dump their stock of 2004's.

Well, the 03 Focus SVT doesn't have any recalls or TSB's issued for it (yet), so it's ahead of most other Fords straight out of the box! :lol:

[Dean]

Have him check out the buyers guide on cars.com...

Sorry, the base Mini starts at $16,500, Impreza at $18K

Lots of cars listed with retail under 16K... It all depends on what he wants...

Civic Si, Accord, or pound a Kia into the ground for a couple years...

Compacts:
Chevrolet Aveo Compact $9,455 – $12,045
Kia Rio Subcompact $9,740 – $11,365
Hyundai Accent Compact $9,999 – $11,399
Chevrolet Cavalier Compact $10,135 – $17,610
Toyota Echo Compact $10,355 – $10,885
Saturn Ion Compact $10,430 – $20,385
Pontiac Sunfire Compact $10,895 – $14,930
Nissan Sentra Compact $12,300 – $17,400
Scion xA Subcompact $12,480
Kia Spectra Compact $12,620 – $14,340
Ford Focus Compact $12,965 – $19,330
Honda Civic Compact $13,010 – $19,650
Suzuki Forenza Compact $13,199 – $16,699
Hyundai Elantra Compact $13,299 – $14,849
Dodge Neon Compact $13,490 – $17,640
Suzuki Aerio Compact $13,499 – $17,149
Toyota Corolla Compact $13,570 – $14,780
Mitsubishi Lancer Compact $13,597 – $17,997
Scion xB Subcompact $13,680
Mazda Mazda3 Subcompact $13,680 – $16,895
Volkswagen Golf Compact $15,580 – $19,320

"Sports Cars":
Ford SVT Focus High-Performance $12,965 – $19,330
Honda Civic Si High-Performance $13,010 – $19,650

MidSize:
Toyota Matrix Midsize $14,670 – $18,750
Kia Optima Midsize $15,500 – $19,595
Honda Accord Midsize $15,900 – $26,500
Hyundai Sonata Midsize $15,999 – $19,799

Pick-Ups:

Toyota Tacoma Compact $12,460 – $22,700
Nissan Frontier Compact $13,390 – $27,570
Ford Ranger Compact $14,575 – $26,015
Mazda B2300 Compact $14,925 – $18,725
Chevrolet Colorado Compact $15,565 – $27,960
GMC Canyon Compact $15,895 – $27,825
Toyota Tundra Full-Size $15,955 – $32,600

[JC]

This is *not* my current roommate w/ the Bimmer... it's my old roommate's that's got a late '90s Neon w/ a blown head gasket. I don't think he's too interested in the performance aspect of the car, and the SRT-4 is definately off the list. I think he wants something peppy and fun to drive with decent space (so no 2 seaters) and room for a nice system in it.

The reason for this price range is because he's also attemping to buy a house, so "saving extra money" won't help, since it'd just go to the house. He's also not looking for a car that he needs to mod in order to get it the way he likes it... the mods he wants to do are stereo related.

AFAIK, the SVT Focus is head-and-shoulders above all the issues you hear about regarding the regular Foci... it's basically a different car. Actually it's basically a Mazda 3. :lol:

Well then. The SVT or the Mazda 3. Maybe I'm just overly critical because of my car of the 3. A simple short shift or bushing would probably solve the problem. I'd check out some Mazda boards to see. Both will have the best for stereo stuff. My friend owns a shop (stereo mostly) and their project car is a 3. Should be sweet when it's done. As a side note he asked me to work at his booth at SEMA. 8) Anyway, I'd probably pick a 3 with the new insight. xB would easily be the one that fits his requirements though, I assume he doesn't like the way they look or something?

[Libila]

Personally I would go with a slightly used 2.5 but if he wants new I would recommend a Scion. My friend has an Xb (the box one) and its pretty nice. Not too quick but its comfortable.

[LetItRev]

Consumer reports initially had concerns and thus did not recommend the Focus. These concerns were addressed by Ford and thus Consumers now recommends it. The American car makers are turning out much better product in just the past two years.

On another related note, Consumers is blasting European upscale sedans, citing quality issues, stating that buyers are better off buying a Lexus! I never thought I'd see that day! :shock: (Lexus, in my opinion, are great cars).

[sperry]

Boy Dean... nice cut and paste job. :roll:

We're looking for some insight, not just a list of cars... :lol:

[sperry]

SVT picture time!

http://www.rsportscars.com/foto/10/svtfocus03_01.jpg

peep the rally version:
http://www.conceptcarz.com/img/forum/focus-svt_cosworth1.jpg

http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2001/02/focus/engine_tp.jpg

http://mightymac.org/svtfoc2.jpg

[wuzian]

As Scott said, I have a 98 Dodge Neon with a blown head gasket. It seems that I put more oil into it than gasoline. About depreciation, I'm not concerned about it. I'm going to run this car into the ground like my current one. I'm looking for basic transportation, with more performance than I have now (132hp - head gasket), and still looks nice. I'd also like to be able to fit a couple mountain bikes in it.

[Dean]

Boy Dean... nice cut and paste job. :roll:

We're looking for some insight, not just a list of cars... :lol:My point was there were many more than your list included, and since we didn't know what he want, I thought the list would give some more options people could comment on...

The Civic Si is a proven little rocket. I'd probably go with it over the ford...

If he wants room for 4 real humans, The accord, or Matrix may be the way to go... But they will be pretty stripped at 16K, but perhaps that is good if he wants to do Stereo Mods.

[Kevin M]

With performance not much of an issue, I'd probably get the Scion Tc.

[MikeSTI]

hey Scott the SVT is out of his price range at 19,300 fully loaded and its sounds like thats the only car you would consider for him, why do you want are opinion? :lol:

[sperry]

hey Scott the SVT is out of his price range at 19,300 fully loaded and its sounds like thats the only car you would consider for him, why do you want are opinion? :lol:

SVT Foci are selling in the $15k's. MSRP for a fully loaded SVT isn't a good benchmark for the car's real price. Plus I doubt he'd get one with many (if any) options. Ford is trying to unload the 2004's because the '05s are about to arrive, or so I've heard.

I wanted opinions, not just a list of cars, because hearing specific information about the cars will help in making the decision. Seeing a list of names and numbers doesn't help for squat when trying to figure out how fun a car is to drive, or how much space there is in the back, or how reliable it's going to be. I was hoping to get some opinions regarding what car you think would fit Jason's requirements... the important part of your response is the "why". I said SVT Focus because I think it's a good looking car in the price range with a ton of get up and go (170hp/LSD) compared to the other cars in that price range, as well as filling his space needs (hatchback). Hell, if they made an AWD version (not the overseas RS, just an SVT + AWD) I'd consider one as a daily driver for sure!

[MikeSTI]

I would probbly take the list Dean posted and start hitting dealerships with the attitude of "lets talk details on the road" and take some test drives.

[ArthurS]

What about Mazdaspeed Protege or Lancer Rallyart?

[sperry]

What about Mazdaspeed Protege or Lancer Rallyart?

The Protoge is now the Mazda 3. Just liek the MX-6 is now the Maxda 6.

Lancer Rallyart? "If I saw myself driving that car, I'd kick my own ass!"

[ArthurS]

Lancer Rallyart? "If I saw myself driving that car, I'd kick my own ass!"

Normally, I would have been there to help if I saw you drive it, but we looked at the new ones and the shape has changed and isn't *horrible*. Its still not the best, but it is better.

[Kevin M]

What about Mazdaspeed Protege or Lancer Rallyart?
Lancer Rallyart? "If I saw myself driving that car, I'd kick my own ass!"

Why? Performance-wise, it's a 2WD equivalent to the RS. Although it does have the distinct disadvantage of being built by Mitsubishi...

[JC]

Why? Performance-wise, it's a 2WD equivalent to the RS. Although it does have the distinct disadvantage of being built by Mitsubishi...

I take offense to that. Anyone read the review in the new SCC?

[sperry]

What about Mazdaspeed Protege or Lancer Rallyart?
Lancer Rallyart? "If I saw myself driving that car, I'd kick my own ass!"

Why? Performance-wise, it's a 2WD equivalent to the RS. Although it does have the distinct disadvantage of being built by Mitsubishi...

Well, you certainly won't toss a mountain bike or two in one. Plus it's what, 113hp or something? Not to mention the factory rice that comes strewn about it.

So yeah, it's just like an RS, except for 50hp, AWD, reliablility and decent styling. :roll:

[JC]

Well, you certainly won't toss a mountain bike or two in one. Plus it's what, 113hp or something? Not to mention the factory rice that comes strewn about it.

So yeah, it's just like an RS, except for 50hp, AWD, reliablility and decent styling. :roll:

It's 160hp IIRC. You are thinking about the OZ.

[sperry]

Well, you certainly won't toss a mountain bike or two in one. Plus it's what, 113hp or something? Not to mention the factory rice that comes strewn about it.

So yeah, it's just like an RS, except for 50hp, AWD, reliablility and decent styling. :roll:

It's 160hp IIRC. You are thinking about the OZ.

Whoops, you're right, that's what I was thinking of. I know nothing about the Ralliart Lancer... except that it's a Mitsu, and I'd be worried that my 10yr 100k mile warranty won't be useful because they'll be outta business in 3 years. :lol:

[Dean]

SVT Foci are selling in the $15k's. MSRP for a fully loaded SVT isn't a good benchmark for the car's real price. Plus I doubt he'd get one with many (if any) options. Ford is trying to unload the 2004's because the '05s are about to arrive, or so I've heard.MSRP isn't a good benchmark of much of anything, especially this late in the model year, but after Tax and License, you will probably get somewhere back in it's range, so it is at least a starting point.I wanted opinions, not just a list of cars, because hearing specific information about the cars will help in making the decision Seeing a list of names and numbers doesn't help for squat when trying to figure out how fun a car is to drive, or how much space there is in the back, or how reliable it's going to be.I think everyone is trying to help get Jason the car he wants/needs. Unfortunately, unless someone on this board is a Valet Attendant that carries a notepad, G-Tech Pro, and tape measure, we are unlikely to come up with opinions that are much better than "It looks cool".

Lists are a starting place, but we also provided some great resources for Jason to narrow his search. I regularly assist people with car buying decisions, and between cars.com, Consumer Reports, KBB, etc. you will find the facts you are looking for as well as driving impressions. I would even be willing to loan my May CR issue which has all the cars in it if he would like.

Unless Jason wants to hand us the cash to go buy him something, car buying ends up being a very personal thing and takes a considerable amount of time, especially to get a good deal.(ask Debbie) Unless he wants to spend a bunch of time cruising Kietzke, doing some up front research will be a must to narrow the field, because as you can see from the list, the field based on price alone is much larger than your original short list.

Jason, go to cars.com and look at the cars on the list, look at their specs and narrow the list. Borrow my CR if you don't have one and check reliability, safety, and driving impressions and shorten the list further. Once you get under 5 cars or so, go drive them. Pick one, and then start they buying process… But that is another post for another time...

[MikeSTI]

Once you get under 5 cars or so, go drive them. Pick one, and then start they buying process… But that is another post for another time... :lol: :lol: save the buying process for a different day even. It can be an event in it self :lol: :lol:

[Dean]

:lol: :lol: save the buying process for a different day even. It can be an event in it self :lol: :lol:Actually, if you do it all up front by email/FAX and a very small amount of phone, the day of is usually pretty easy. It is all the BS before that is the issue. Probably the biggest thing to remember is to always be willing to get up and walk away when they start screwing around. Nothing scares them more than your leaving, or threatening to. Getting everything nailed down before walking in the door minimizes their ability to screw around a lot.

[dknv]

Mazda 3 -
Go to Carson City Mazda/Hyundai, see Curt & tell him I sent you - and I'll get a $50 kickback on the purchase of a new vehicle. :lol:

Seriously, besides base price of the vehicle, are any other criteria important? It sounds like reliability may be important based on the first post in this thread, and there are probably others (i.e. color/options availability, gas mileage, the list can get quite big).

When Dean posted the list from cars.com, not only is it a list, but it is a pointer to one of several resources on the web, that can be very helpful in searching in the right direction. I would recommend a mindset of taking time to do the right research, including getting people's opinions, researching the web resources, reading what car magazine reviewers have to say, and blend that information towards narrowing the list to 2 or 3.

But - if it were me, and I were going to buy a house soon - I'd wait on a new car purchase, buy the house, live in it a few months, then take an equity loan to get a car. But that's just me.

[Kevin M]

Why? Performance-wise, it's a 2WD equivalent to the RS. Although it does have the distinct disadvantage of being built by Mitsubishi...

I take offense to that. Anyone read the review in the new SCC?

Actually no.

[sperry]

Mazda 3 -
Go to Carson City Mazda/Hyundai, see Curt & tell him I sent you - and I'll get a $50 kickback on the purchase of a new vehicle. :lol:

Seriously, besides base price of the vehicle, are any other criteria important? It sounds like reliability may be important based on the first post in this thread, and there are probably others (i.e. color/options availability, gas mileage, the list can get quite big).

When Dean posted the list from cars.com, not only is it a list, but it is a pointer to one of several resources on the web, that can be very helpful in searching in the right direction. I would recommend a mindset of taking time to do the right research, including getting people's opinions, researching the web resources, reading what car magazine reviewers have to say, and blend that information towards narrowing the list to 2 or 3.

But - if it were me, and I were going to buy a house soon - I'd wait on a new car purchase, buy the house, live in it a few months, then take an equity loan to get a car. But that's just me.

I'm pretty sure Jason's covered all the websites, from cars.com to edmunds.com, etc, etc, etc.

He needs the car now because, as was mentioned, his Neon is almost dead: blown head gasket... it barely starts in the morning and goes through more oil than it does gas.

I think Jason already narrowed his choices down to 2 or 3... with the Scion TC and the Mazda 3 at the top of the list. I put up this thread just to see what everyone's opinions were about these (and the others I mentioned) cars. I was hoping more for stuff like "the Mazda's motor is a little weak", or "I love the way the Focus handles", etc, you know, personal 1st hand info, the kinda stuff JC replied with. Basically I intended for this to be a thread about $16k cars, not a thread about how to shop for a car with obvious things like "do research and pick the car that meets your requirements"... of course you do research and pick the best car for your requirements! :lol:

Anyway, back on topic:

Jason, his GF and I went down to Mazda and Toyota at lunch to peep the 3 and the TC. I really dig the Mazda 3 hatch. It may be a little bit blukier than the older MP3 wagon, but I still think it's pretty nice. Plus the 3's can be had for a base price i the $13k's! Not a bad price for a decent car. I'm just worried that it's way underpowered.

Toyota didn't have a TC in house yet.. it was supposed to arrive today, but was late. They expect it tomorrow. Scion's are prices al la cart with fixed prices like Saturns are (or used to be?). So there's no hassle purchasing one. We check out an xB a bit. I'm a fan (as I've stated before) but I think Jason's turned off by the extreme-tissue-box look. :lol:

We didn't go by Ford. I still think the SVT Focus is the best deal if you can get one for around $16k. They've got all that extra horsepower and the LSD over the Mazda 3, but should handle just as good since their virtually the same platform. I also like the styling of the SVT better. I think I might have to test drive one just to see how fun they are.

[dknv]

:oops: OK, y didn't u say so in the 1st place?
Regarding dealerships - in my experience, Reno Mazda jacked up the sticker price with their markup, then told me they'd take a 'discount' of roughly 60% of their markup. Some discount. :roll:
But, Dick Lewis from SCCA may be able to hook you guys up with a no-haggle sales rep. Worth asking if he's actually going to buy from them.

[sperry]

:oops: OK, y didn't u say so in the 1st place?

I thought I did :lol:, but like all SECCS threads, this one went off topic and became the "How to buy a car thread".

At least we avoided the normal fare of monkeys, hygienists, and milkshakes.

[Dean]

Let me summarize...

Jason wants a car to haul butt, monkeys, mountain bikes, and have sex with hypnotized hot dental hygientists in.

Scott likes Box(y cars), LSD, the SVT and is easily distracted by milkshakes.

The rest of us just don't understand except Debbie and possibly Nicole since we are bad boys, and Jason is taking us all camping after he gets his new car, but we don't know where...

Oh, and I still like the Honda... Less HP, but lower weight, and more history...

[MattR]

That pretty much sums it up, except, don;t buy illegal brake ducts, you'll get banned... other than they, good summary.

[tysonK]

a reply to this thread:

SVT

[sperry]

Let me summarize...

Jason wants a car to haul butt, monkeys, mountain bikes, and have sex with hypnotized hot dental hygientists in.

Scott likes Box(y cars), LSD, the SVT and is easily distracted by milkshakes.

The rest of us just don't understand accept Debbie and possibly Nicole since we are bad boys, and Jason is taking us all camping after he gets his new car, but we don't know where...

Oh, and I still like the Honda... Less HP, but lower weight, and more history...

nonononono... I'm the one that wants to have hot monkey sex with a hypnotized hygienist... in Jason's car... while drinking LSD laced milkshakes... :P :lol:

The one thing about the Honda... it's a little too agressively styled I think for Jason's tastes... I dig it, but it *will* attract the attention of the ricers... aka, me. :lol:

[AtomicLabMonkey]

Let me summarize...

Jason wants a car to haul butt, monkeys, mountain bikes, and have sex with hypnotized hot dental hygientists in.

Scott likes Box(y cars), LSD, the SVT and is easily distracted by milkshakes.

The rest of us just don't understand accept Debbie and possibly Nicole since we are bad boys, and Jason is taking us all camping after he gets his new car, but we don't know where...

Oh, and I still like the Honda... Less HP, but lower weight, and more history...

nonononono... I'm the one that wants to have hot monkey sex with a hypnotized hygienist... in Jason's car... while drinking LSD laced milkshakes... :P :lol:


This board is outta control... :lol:

[MattR]

This board is outta control... :lol:

No Kidding...I'm going to corner-carvers to start a drift thread... :lol:

[Kevin M]

This board is outta control... :lol:

No Kidding...I'm going to corner-carvers to start a drift thread... :lol:

Wait! we need to activate the phone tree again, so we can all watch you get banned! :lol:

[MattR]

This board is outta control... :lol:

No Kidding...I'm going to corner-carvers to start a drift thread... :lol:

Wait! we need to activate the phone tree again, so we can all watch you get banned! :lol:

I usually work well with an audience...

[dknv]

That pretty much sums it up, except, don;t buy illegal brake ducts, you'll get banned... other than they, good summary.
And lastly, if you wear the pentultimate Robe & Wizard's hat, while camping in tents, you may be able to perform above-mentioned hypnosis and not have to use gas & IV's to have your wisdom teeth removed.... :lol:

[Kevin M]

Too... many jokes... can't... breathe... head... exploding... :lol: :lol: :lol:

[sperry]

BTW: Reno Ford's got a red SVT Focus with the $3400 euro package (heated leather Ricaro seats, heated mirrors, sunroof, anthracite 10 spoke rims, HIDs, etc) The sticker says $22k. I think picking it up for $18-$19k would be a pretty sweet deal. I really like that car... however I have yet to drive it. If it's anything like Eric's Si, I think it would make for a sick daily driver!

[JC]

Mazda 3 -
Go to Carson City Mazda/Hyundai, see Curt & tell him I sent you - and I'll get a $50 kickback on the purchase of a new vehicle. :lol:

Seriously, besides base price of the vehicle, are any other criteria important? It sounds like reliability may be important based on the first post in this thread, and there are probably others (i.e. color/options availability, gas mileage, the list can get quite big).

When Dean posted the list from cars.com, not only is it a list, but it is a pointer to one of several resources on the web, that can be very helpful in searching in the right direction. I would recommend a mindset of taking time to do the right research, including getting people's opinions, researching the web resources, reading what car magazine reviewers have to say, and blend that information towards narrowing the list to 2 or 3.

But - if it were me, and I were going to buy a house soon - I'd wait on a new car purchase, buy the house, live in it a few months, then take an equity loan to get a car. But that's just me.

I'm pretty sure Jason's covered all the websites, from cars.com to edmunds.com, etc, etc, etc.

He needs the car now because, as was mentioned, his Neon is almost dead: blown head gasket... it barely starts in the morning and goes through more oil than it does gas.

I think Jason already narrowed his choices down to 2 or 3... with the Scion TC and the Mazda 3 at the top of the list. I put up this thread just to see what everyone's opinions were about these (and the others I mentioned) cars. I was hoping more for stuff like "the Mazda's motor is a little weak", or "I love the way the Focus handles", etc, you know, personal 1st hand info, the kinda stuff JC replied with. Basically I intended for this to be a thread about $16k cars, not a thread about how to shop for a car with obvious things like "do research and pick the car that meets your requirements"... of course you do research and pick the best car for your requirements! :lol:

Anyway, back on topic:

Jason, his GF and I went down to Mazda and Toyota at lunch to peep the 3 and the TC. I really dig the Mazda 3 hatch. It may be a little bit blukier than the older MP3 wagon, but I still think it's pretty nice. Plus the 3's can be had for a base price i the $13k's! Not a bad price for a decent car. I'm just worried that it's way underpowered.

Toyota didn't have a TC in house yet.. it was supposed to arrive today, but was late. They expect it tomorrow. Scion's are prices al la cart with fixed prices like Saturns are (or used to be?). So there's no hassle purchasing one. We check out an xB a bit. I'm a fan (as I've stated before) but I think Jason's turned off by the extreme-tissue-box look. :lol:

We didn't go by Ford. I still think the SVT Focus is the best deal if you can get one for around $16k. They've got all that extra horsepower and the LSD over the Mazda 3, but should handle just as good since their virtually the same platform. I also like the styling of the SVT better. I think I might have to test drive one just to see how fun they are.

Sorry to go on-topic here but when I drove the 3 I thought the power was fine. I drove a top of the line one though. It's not a car I would buy, but it's a fine car and sounds like the best choice for Jason IMHO.

JC

[sperry]

Sorry to go on-topic here but when I drove the 3 I thought the power was fine. I drove a top of the line one though. It's not a car I would buy, but it's a fine car and sounds like the best choice for Jason IMHO.

JC

I didn't realize the new M3S model has 160hp. I was under the impression that the 3 had the same 130hp motor the MP3 had. I also think the 3 is a great car... maybe even better for Jason than the SVT because of the lower price and additional interior space.

However, I think the SVT is a much better looking car, and would be more fun to drive considering the 6MT and the LSD. I think for me the SVT is more my kinda car because it emphasizes fun and handling over utility. but I'm not Jason, and I don't know if that's as important to him as it is to me. The SVT certainly costs more, especially if you want the options.

We also check out the Scion tC today. Me no likey. It's not a bad looking car in person... very Tiburon... but I flat out don't fit in it. It doesn't look like a small car, but the seating position is such that my head hits the ceiling and the wheel is about a foot too far away! (I really don't know how they accomplished that one! :lol:)

Also the Scions are a bit underpowered. I was told they had the base model Celica motors in 'em... but they actually have the Echo motors! (Well the tC has the 160hp 4-cyl Camery motor.) I guess the gearing on the xB is dope, because riding in one certainly didn't feel like only 105hp.. but my guess is hitting the freeway would suck. :(

So... my vote for Jason:

SVT Focus ties the Mazda 3s Hatch for 1st
the tC takes 3rd
the rest go to hell. :P

[Kostamojen]

Do I need to post a link to Matt's (another matt, not MattR's) focus that had the whole front wheel just fall off for no reason, or can we just end the whole "focus is good" thing right now?

[sperry]

Do I need to post a link to Matt's (another matt, not MattR's) focus that had the whole front wheel just fall off for no reason, or can we just end the whole "focus is good" thing right now?

Was it a 2004 SVT? I doubt it. Yeah the Focus has quality problems early on, but I've yet to hear about a problem with the '03 and '04's or the SVT.

Of the cars we've been talking about, I think the Focus is the best one.... performance, looks, fit and finish are all higher than the others.

[Kostamojen]

The finish is most definatly not that great. The seats are uncomfortable, the interior is constructed of cheap plastics, and the looks are not great. The steering and handling for a FWD car are good, but not great, the power isnt there either. I dont know why you are so up on this car?

[tysonK]

my car is made of cheap plastics.

[Nick Koan]

chiming in a little late (and not reading the entire thread)

but I'd say SVT or scion

[Kostamojen]

my car is made of cheap plastics.
The focus is worse, than even our GC's

[Kevin M]

I don't understand why anybody would expect better in a $16,000 car.

[sperry]

The finish is most definatly not that great. The seats are uncomfortable, the interior is constructed of cheap plastics, and the looks are not great. The steering and handling for a FWD car are good, but not great, the power isnt there either. I dont know why you are so up on this car?

So post some alternatives! The SVT Focus interior is *by far* the nicest I've seen in car in this price range. And I'm pretty sure that the Ricaro sport seats were pretty comfortable, at least that's what my butt and back told me.

Looks, well, that's personal. I happen to think the SVT Focus looks good. It looks like the RS and the rally car... at least to the same extent the Impreza looks like the rally car.

As far as handling... well, *all* the cars he's looking at are FWD. There are no $16k RWD or AWD cars. And this should be one of the best... LSD, traction control. And power... it's got the most power and the lighest weight of all the cars! How much power does your car make? Something tells me it's not 170hp. :P

So I'm "up on this car" because I think it's sporty, good looking, nice, and the most bang for your buck in this price class.

[Kostamojen]

The Si has probably the best interior in this cadigory, it may not be a great honda, nor that great looking, but it has the cargo room, the great interior, and enough power to rank it up with these other cars. But the Mazda 3 might have it trumped in the interior department surprizingly. In fact, i'd rank the Mazda 3 above the Focus in every cadigory other than power. I have been very impressed with it, it feels and looks more like a $20k plus car.
The Mini I would probably rank above the Focus as well interior wise, and handling wise definatly on part with the SVT. And even that base model engine is rather peppy with the Mini.

Another option that might be interesting, there were adds in the paper this weekend for brand new 04 RS's and TS's for $16,999... I was surprized to see that.

But personally, for that price range, i'd go with a used car.