Auto-X Class Help

[M3n2c3]

I'll be getting my wheels and tires a bit closer to the start of the season - probably mid-March or so.

As far as my class goes, I was going to ask for input from the "old-timers" here, but was going to save that conversation for a bit closer to the start of the season as well :lol:

I'm not sure if I ought to run in novice for a while or if I should jump straight into a class. I'm also not sure if my coil-overs (and possibly intake/exhaust by April) are enough to move me from STS to DSP. The STS classification seems to allow replaced struts, lower springs, and camber plates, but I don't see anything about full coilovers.

[MattR]

I split this off from the schedule thread.

Once the rule book comes out for 06( or you can check it out online) It's always a good idea to familiarize yourself with the basics of your class...If there's something that doesn't make sense, or can be interpreted in multiple ways, we can usually figure it out here.

Coilovers are fine for STS, as are your intake and exhaust.

And I would suggest you start running in the STS class. The Novice program is basically designed to help drivers learn the ropes, which you've done already. There's really no reason to run as a novice more than a handful of times.

[Dean]

And I would suggest you start running in the STS class. The Novice program is basically designed to help drivers learn the ropes, which you've done already. There's really no reason to run as a novice more than a handful of times.The primary advantages to running Novice is that you can run twice a day every day or either half of the day any day, and you are more likely to get coaching without having to seek it out.

[MattR]

True, but M3n2c3 has run a few events now. I guess it comes down to choosing between competing or more seat time. More seat time is always a plus though.

[M3n2c3]

Well, I've done one. I made it out in September, and missed the final run in October because of work. :(

As far as learning the ropes goes, I'm good to go even after that one event. It's really not that complicated. Plus, something just popped into my head - April 1st and 2nd are school and test & tune days, not competition, right? That'll make a good refresher, and I'll be all set.

Still, the thought of extra seat time is definitely alluring. That's a tough call. Good thing I have plenty of time left to decide :lol:

[Dean]

If you run in a "standard" class, you can still run RNP in the afternoons if you ran for points in the morning. So this works for 1/2 the events or so.

[Kevin M]

Start out building your car slowly for STS or DSP. Basically the difference is you can change bakes in ST, and you can change clutch and flywheel in SP, but not vice versa, along with a few other minor differences. SP also has unrestricted wheel and tire sizing, while I think STS only allows 7 or 7.5" wheel width and 225 section tires.

Then, start the season in novice, for the first 4 events. After that decide if you want to move into your class for real, and you can take your previous results with you at that time, so you won't be 4 events behind your competition.

[Joeyy]

Scrubbed a +1 off of Dean's old wheels tonight if it wasn't a pointer cone.

[cody]

Can I just paste my mods here and ask you guys to tell me what class I could run in? I know jack about autoX, but I hope to come out even if I'm running on my crappy Yoko's.

[dknv]

Can I just paste my mods here and ask you guys to tell me what class I could run in? I know jack about autoX, but I hope to come out even if I'm running on my crappy Yoko's.You could, and you'll probably get an answer. But I'd also suggest you get used to looking at the rulebook (along with the *Fasttrack monthly updates), that is the official guide. If you rely solely on people's feedback you may find yourself owned because someone gave you an answer with outdated knowledge.

(*Does anyone know for sure, the Fasttrack updates are only going to be on the scca website now?)

[MattR]

Or you could run as a Novice and it won't matter. Which I would suggest.

[cody]

Cool Debbie. That sounds like sound advice.

Here they are if anybody wouldn't mind taking a stab at it for me:

Power: Cobb Protuned by Equilibrium Tuning (For two seperate elevations, sea level and 5K feet [no map switching necessary]), Crucial UP & DP, Borla Hush CBE, Stock 3rd Cat, K&N Drop-In, Heat Wrapped Stock Headers, Omori Boost & EGT Gauges mounted in an Autometer 52mm Bezel Pod

Suspension: Eibach Pro Kit Springs (wagon specific), KYB AGX Struts, Mr. Josh's Solid Endlinks, 20mm SOA Rear Anti-Sway Bar (sedan specific), Whiteline Quickrelease Strut Bar (Rear, Wagon Specific)

Summer Setup: Gun Metal Rota Torque 17's, Yoko AVS ES100's in 215 width (I'm not super impressed with the dry grip of these tires)

Winter Setup: Black powder coated stockers with Toyo Proxes 4's in 225 width (I'd say their dry handeling is as good as the summer setup)

Brakes: Goodridge SS Lines, Porterfield R4-S Pads, ATE Fluid, Updated ABS ECU

Deletes: Intake Silencer, Defrost to A/C Contact

Other Stuff: Fumoto Oil Drain Valve, Rock Blocker Clear Bra, Odyssey Light-Weight Battery

Bling: Momo Shifter Knob, Cleared Head Lights

Stereo: Stock HU, JL Audio Amp and 10" sub in custom wagon enclosure, Kenwood Exceleron 6.5" in front doors, Infinity Reference 4" in rear doors, Dave Navone LOC's and I Dynamat Extreme'd the crap out of the front doors

[cody]

Or you could run as a Novice and it won't matter. Which I would suggest.

Sounds apropriate. :)

[MattR]

Cody, You're in Street Mod.

[cody]

Isn't that the same class as Matt? :(

[MattR]

Isn't that the same class as Matt? :(

Matt- Sti
Eric- Sti
Mike K- Sti
Scott- FrankenSuby
Pete- WRX
Andy- WRX
Brian- STi


So yeah, it will be the most competitive class in 2006. I can guarantee that.

[MikeK]

Cody, I am not 100% sure but I think the intake silencer delete and lighter battery might be pushing you from ESP into SM. I think everything else might be ESP (I am assuming that increased boost was finally allowed in street prepared, I haven't actually seen the rules yet).

I would suggest running the first few events as novice. If you decide you want to compete for points, you can just convert up to 4 novice results over to the class you eventually run in, so you have 4 events to sort out your class for sure.

[MikeK]

Brian- STi

Brian is still stock now, and I think he is only planning on a rear sway bar for autox, so STU or BSP. Brian?

[cody]

If those are the only two mods that are pushing me into SM, then, when the time comes, I can re-install teh stock battery (if it's still good by then), and the intake silencer in 15 minutes. That'd be cool.

[MattR]

Brian is still stock now, and I think he is only planning on a rear sway bar for autox, so STU or BSP. Brian?
Good point. You are correct.

[MattR]

I am assuming that increased boost was finally allowed in street prepared, I haven't actually seen the rules yet.


hmmm. I there a definate answer on this anywhere?

[MikeK]

If those are the only two mods that are pushing me into SM, then, when the time comes, I can re-install teh stock battery (if it's still good by then), and the intake silencer in 15 minutes. That'd be cool.

Speaking as someone who has wasted a lot of $$ removing stupid shit from my old WRX to switch classes, I would say you should think about whether you prefer the mods or the different class ... especially in your first season! I took a stiffer tranny mount out of my WRX to move from SM into STX with everyone else. Not only did I still suck at autox, but then I hated my car on the street too :(

And make sure you look it up in the rulebook first, like Debbie said, we are just guessing, the rules might have changed :)

[Dean]

ARGHHHHH Read teh bloody rules....

Solo
http://www.scca.org/_filelibrary/Fi..._solo_rules.pdf
GCR
http://www.scca.org/_FileLibrary/File/GCR2006.pdf

Batteries, and intake changes are allowed in SP, and always have been. More Boost is the primary change in SP this year.

[MikeK]

hmmm. I there a definate answer on this anywhere?

In the rule book! :P

I just downloaded the rulebook, and it looks like the battery is allowed in street prepared. (Rule 15.9.B)

I also found this (Rule 15.10.C.4.F):

"Boost regulation systems, either electronic or mechanical, and electronic fuel cuts referencing boost pressure may be altered or modified except as prohibited herein. Boost pressure changes resulting from authorised changes are permitted"

Just skimming through the rules, that is the only one I can find that mentions boost. I think it is saying that you can modify the boost and stay in street prepared.

So Cody, I think you might be in ESP.

[cody]

Sweet! And I do plan to RTFRB.

[Dean]

I hate you all. Remind me to kill you....

[MattR]

Sweet, I was looking for that rule about boost...Thanks Mike, I missed it somehow when I skimmed through.

So, My car is technically a BSP car now. Interesting. I'd prefer to run with everyone else though, in SM.

[MikeK]

I hate you all. Remind me to kill you....

You have to catch us first ... *snap*!

[Dean]

You have to catch us first ... *snap*!It's not a matter of catching you, it is a matter of waiting for you to catch up... :P

[M3n2c3]

That's ok, I'll be the one going, "hey guys, wait up!" :D

[dknv]

Matt- Sti
Eric- Sti
Mike K- Sti
Scott- FrankenSuby
Pete- WRX
Andy- WRX
Brian- STi


So yeah, it will be the most competitive class in 2006. I can guarantee that.And that doesn't even include any properly-prepared SM BMW's who might show up. ;)

[dknv]

I hate you all. Remind me to kill you....Pourquoi? Because of the free boost?

[MattR]

And that doesn't even include any properly-prepared SM BMW's who might show up. ;)

What do you know? haha. I know Jim Kunze in his M3 is also in SM, as is Vistor in his Mini. We're all screwed if someone decides to run a full season in a really prepped SM BMW.

[Ezdno]

RTFRB.

Definately the short answer here!

[cody]

ARGHHHHH Read teh bloody rules....

Solo
http://www.scca.org/_filelibrary/Fi..._solo_rules.pdf
GCR
http://www.scca.org/_FileLibrary/File/GCR2006.pdf

Batteries, and intake changes are allowed in SP, and always have been. More Boost is the primary change in SP this year.

Solo link is busted. Where can I find the rulebook?

[MikeK]

Solo rules (http://www.scca.org/_filelibrary/File/2006_solo_rules.pdf)

[cody]

Thank You!

[cody]

So Cody, I think you might be in ESP.

After finally reading the rule rulebook, I think you're right (although I do plan to run in novice). The "E" in ESP refers to the fact that it's a WRX right? (page 166 of the SCCA Rulebook (http://www.scca.org/_filelibrary/File/2006_solo_rules.pdf))

I'm just trying to get the hang of what the different letters stand for.

And we did decide modified boost is okay for Street Prepared right? Dean confused me on this the other day.

[sperry]

After finally reading the rule rulebook, I think you're right (although I do plan to run in novice). The "E" in ESP refers to the fact that it's a WRX right? (page 166 of the SCCA Rulebook (http://www.scca.org/_filelibrary/File/2006_solo_rules.pdf))

I'm just trying to get the hang of what the different letters stand for.

And we did decide modified boost is okay for Street Prepared right? Dean confused me on this the other day.
The "E" is for "not A B C D or F". The letters are arbitrary. The 2.0L WRX just happens to be in ESP because ESP just happens to have the cars that the WRX is competative with... assuming it didn't get moved like the STI did after they opened up boost in Street Prepared.

[Nick Koan]

Yeah, thats E Street Prepared. So, check out the street prepared rules to find out if your mods are legal, then you look up what version of SP you are eligible for in your car (which, is E).

As for boost, modified boost is now allowable in ESP but the mods to attain the altered boost has to be legal (and remapping the ECU is an allowable way to do this). If I recall correctly, you can't alter the turbo in any fashion.

[sperry]

Yeah, thats E Street Prepared. So, check out the street prepared rules to find out if your mods are legal, then you look up what version of SP you are eligible for in your car (which, is E).

As for boost, modified boost is now allowable in ESP but the mods to attain the altered boost has to be legal (and remapping the ECU is an allowable way to do this). If I recall correctly, you can't alter the turbo in any fashion.
That's not entirely true. You can alter the turbo through use of holistic processes. I like to sweet talk my turbo and play happy music for it. I think I'm getting like 1 or 2 extra PSI out of it. :P

[Nick Koan]

God damnit. I thought I was all set for ESP, but I can't find the 05+ GT in the Street Prepared rules. I know the '05+ has it's own line in Stock, but I can't seem to find it in SP. I guess that means I can run FSP under the Subaru 4WD Turbo NOC. :p

Or, more realisticly I need to dig through new FasTracks.

[cody]

Thanks guys. I'm excited. :)

[cody]

God damnit. I thought I was all set for ESP, but I can't find the 05+ GT in the Street Prepared rules. I know the '05+ has it's own line in Stock, but I can't seem to find it in SP. I guess that means I can run FSP under the Subaru 4WD Turbo NOC. :p

Or, more realisticly I need to dig through new FasTracks.
Doesn't page 168 indicate you'd be in FSP? It says Legacy GT so I'd assume that means all years right?

[Nick Koan]

Doesn't page 168 indicate you'd be in FSP? It says Legacy GT so I'd assume that means all years right?

Well, I could run with that, but since the '05+ is drastically different power wise to previous GT's, it should be classed different. In fact, it is in Stock form (DS instead of HS) which leads me to believe this is a clerical error, and I'm probably in ESP like I was last year.

[Dean]

Maybe I'm blind, but I can't find anything that puts you anywhere other than FSP... 2.5 forester, yes, ESP, but nothing on the LGT 2.5T

[Nick Koan]

Maybe I'm blind, but I can't find anything that puts you anywhere other than FSP... 2.5 forester, yes, ESP, but nothing on the LGT 2.5T

I'll have to look, but I remember seeing a FasTrack from last year that put me in ESP.

[cody]

Would a taller hood scoop put you in a particular class?

[Kevin M]

Street Mod.

[NevadaSTi]

Brian is still stock now, and I think he is only planning on a rear sway bar for autox, so STU or BSP. Brian?

Correct, I am still stock. Biggest problem I have is lack of money. :(

Sweet, I was looking for that rule about boost...Thanks Mike, I missed it somehow when I skimmed through.

So, My car is technically a BSP car now. Interesting. I'd prefer to run with everyone else though, in SM.

From my basic understanding of the rules, I would be running TBSP. So, I am fine with letting Matt run with the SM crowd. At least that way with my totally stock STi I can still be competitive.

[cody]

Street Mod.
Dang, glad I asked. What about an ic water sprayer?

I'm also curious if boost controllers and boost solenoids can effect your class.

[Kevin M]

You just have to be sure your sprayer is turned off. I think that actually goes to an overall rule that you aren't allowed to drip fluids of any kind on the course or on grid. Boost changes are allowed this year in everything but Stock, so you're okay with any of that.

[MikeK]

At least that way with my totally stock STi I can still be competitive.

If you really are staying totally stock you are better off in A-stock (TAS). An STi can do very well in A-stock, just look at last year's Hawthorne results.

[Kevin M]

The 275/35 Hoosiers helped a little. ;)

[sperry]

Dang, glad I asked. What about an ic water sprayer?

I'm also curious if boost controllers and boost solenoids can effect your class.
I may be off base but if I remember correctly, unless it's factory equipment, waterspray systems are illegal in all classes. And I believe if you're using your OEM waterspray system and getting the track wet, you can probably be protested. :(

[cody]

Okay...what about running Torco or race fuel?

[Kevin M]

Legal but not worthwhile if you aren't mapped for it.

[Dean]

Fixed...Boost changes are allowed this year in everything but Stock and Street Touring, so you're okay with any of that.

[cody]

Legal but not worthwhile if you aren't mapped for it.
I've never autoX'd so maybe you know somthing I don't, but raising the octane of your fuel a couple points will protect against knock and the resulting power loss. On a hot day I'd think it would protect the engine and keep the power where it should be.

[AtomicLabMonkey]

It is good protection but unleaded race gas is at least 100 octane, so it's more than just a "couple" points. You could potentially lose some power due to the decreased volatility of the fuel, although race gas is typically more pure than pump gas since it doesn't have oxygenates or other emissions additives blended in with it... so the power issue is a toss-up. Just something to think about.

[cody]

Yah, I wouldn't run 100% race gas. Thats good to know that it doesn't have the emission additives though. Maybe that makes it slightly more desireable than using Torco?

[Kevin M]

...protect against knock and the resulting power loss. On a hot day I'd think it would protect the engine and keep the power where it should be.

Shouldn't your custom tune be able to do that? Granted, there are power gains to be made by mapping for higher octane, but safe is safe.

[cody]

Regardless of my tune, if the IC is heat soaked, once I get into boost, the ECU will see knock and the ECU will pull timing as a result. Filling up with 93 or 95 would help prevent this a lot.

[Nick Koan]

You're car won't pull enough timing for it to matter. Maybe 5 peak hp or so, but if I've learned anything about auto-x, its that driver skill is much more important then 5 hp at the top end.

[cody]

I think you stand to lose a lot more than 5hp given a thoroughly heat soaked IC and high ambient temps. I hope to do the driver skill mod as well. :P

[sperry]

I think you stand to lose a lot more than 5hp given a thoroughly heat soaked IC and high ambient temps. I hope to do the driver skill mod as well. :P
But you're still only really going to see the losses at the top end. You won't even be getting out of 2nd gear at 90% of the events, top end really isn't an issue.

As far as heat soak, bring a spray bottle and cool the intercooler before each run. It helps for the 1st 9 maybe 10 seconds of the run. :lol:

[Nick Koan]

When you are moving, though, its not really an issue since you'll have plenty of airflow. The biggest problem for heatsoak is after you stop the car between runs and you just sit there.

What you can do, and a lot of us do, is grab a 1 gallon pesticide sprayer from Lowes or Home Depot. You can use that to mist your intercooler between runs. That should help quite a bit with the heat soak. If you don't pick one up in time, mine should have enough volume for the two cars if you want to use it also.

[cody]

But you're still only really going to see the losses at the top end. You won't even be getting out of 2nd gear at 90% of the events, top end really isn't an issue.

As far as heat soak, bring a spray bottle and cool the intercooler before each run. It helps for the 1st 9 maybe 10 seconds of the run. :lol:

Actually, I meant to ask, can I do that? What about a big bag of ice on the ic? Once the car gets moving, heat soak isn't as much of an issue. It's when the car sits for 10-20 minutes between runs. How long between runs in an autox typically?

[cody]

When you are moving, though, its not really an issue since you'll have plenty of airflow. The biggest problem for heatsoak is after you stop the car between runs and you just sit there.

What you can do, and a lot of us do, is grab a 1 gallon pesticide sprayer from Lowes or Home Depot. You can use that to mist your intercooler between runs. That should help quite a bit with the heat soak. If you don't pick one up in time, mine should have enough volume for the two cars if you want to use it also.

Cool, I'll definately bring a mister. Do you guys ever mist your tires if they get too hot?

[tysonK]

Cool, I'll definately bring a mister. Do you guys ever mist your tires if they get too hot?

yes

[sperry]

Actually, I meant to ask, can I do that? What about a big bag of ice on the ic? Once the car gets moving, heat soak isn't as much of an issue. It's when the car sits for 10-20 minutes between runs. How long between runs in an autox typically?
Ice is probably overkill... plus, if the session gets moving you can have as little as 5 minutes between runs, which isn't enough time for a bag of ice to really make a difference.

You really should run a few events before worring about minutia like this... the things you're talking about will gain you hundreths per run, whereas seat time alone will gain you seconds per run.

[sperry]

Cool, I'll definately bring a mister. Do you guys ever mist your tires if they get too hot?
Water on the tire is a double edge sword unless you've got a pirometer to know exactly where your temps are at.

[cody]

Ice is probably overkill... plus, if the session gets moving you can have as little as 5 minutes between runs, which isn't enough time for a bag of ice to really make a difference.

Wow, 5 minutes. That's not much time. I can see why you guys use sprayers.

You really should run a few events before worring about minutia like this... the things you're talking about will gain you hundreths per run, whereas seat time alone will gain you seconds per run.

I'm not worried about my time as much as I just want a happy car. Just trying to get a feel for things, that's all. I wish I could do a larger hoodscoop and an IC sprayer, but I like the low budget method of using a mister since it's free! :)

[MikeK]

I wish I could do a larger hoodscoop and an IC sprayer, but I like the low budget method of using a mister since it's free! :)

You can do these things, you will just be in a higher class. Unless of course you run the season in Novice, then modifications don't matter.

[cody]

I will be running in novice, but I'm trying to plan ahead so I can run ESP. :)

[AtomicLabMonkey]

What about a big bag of ice on the ic?

Sprayers work fine, probably better than resting a bag of ice on the IC. They work for hot radiators too. The water you spray on boils away, which pulls quite a bit of heat energy out of the exchanger.

[cody]

God, I love free mods. Water bottle FTW!

[Kevin M]

I'm not worried about my time as much as I just want a happy car.

Your car will be fine. :) If your car didn't have such an amazing ecu and you were tuned for perfect peak power, then you might have something to worry about. But your car is equipped to handle poor conditions without destroying itself. Yay for Subaru.

[cody]

Word. Suby ECU's are amazing.

[A1337STI]

Wow so if you over spray your IC and water makes it onto the track someone can protest. so any amount of water if 1 drop makes it down there ? :| eeks. hopefully won't happen to me but i love spraying down my IC . (dunno why just makes me happy)
would an IC spray modulator bump you up a class , if you car comes stock with an ic sprayer?

[Dean]

Wow so if you over spray your IC and water makes it onto the track someone can protest. so any amount of water if 1 drop makes it down there ? :| eeks. hopefully won't happen to me but i love spraying down my IC . (dunno why just makes me happy)
would an IC spray modulator bump you up a class , if you car comes stock with an ic sprayer?Theoretically, yes. And yes, but not necessarily one class, straight to prepared, or Street Modified. Not allowed in S, SP or ST. The basic rule is hat unless it is specifically allowed in the rules, you can't do it.

[A1337STI]

found this link off the Reno scca website, is this the correct set of rules for Auto X ?

http://scca.org/_filelibrary/File/2006_solo_rules.pdf :) thanks

[Dean]

found this link off the Reno scca website, is this the correct set of rules for Auto X ?

http://scca.org/_filelibrary/File/2006_solo_rules.pdf :) thanksYes

[NevadaSTi]

If you really are staying totally stock you are better off in A-stock (TAS). An STi can do very well in A-stock, just look at last year's Hawthorne results.

I thought the rules stated STi's and Evo's are in BSP?

How can I run TAS?

[Kevin M]

STis and Evos are only in BSP to run under Street Prepared rules. In Stock they are classed as AS.

[zpeed]

I use to run a small tube from rear window washer to the I/C on my Talon. It did help cool it down on a hot day.

[NevadaSTi]

If I run AS, I would be running against all those damn vettes. Will the T give me an advantage so that I am competitive with them, or should I just run TBSP?

[Kevin M]

Yes, Vettes in AS- but also in BSP. C4 Vettes anyway. Also, any modded Evos or STis in BSP will smoke you (car vs. car anyway; you could still outdrive their mod adantage potentially). In AS you can be regionally competitive with nothing done at all.

Street tires help you stay competitive without having to buy Hoosiers or V710s. Doesn't affect the competitive balance between make/model. Your best chance, by far, is to run TAS. You'll still get clobbered by Pat and Mike Mulhall, but you'll have your best PAX results in that class.

[Dean]

If I run AS, I would be running against all those damn vettes. Will the T give me an advantage so that I am competitive with them, or should I just run TBSP?If you run TBSP you will be running against all those Vettes also... Larry Capen specifically, and he beats the ASP Vettes with his BSP automatic...

[MikeK]

You'll still get clobbered by Pat and Mike Mulhall, but you'll have your best PAX results in that class.

I thought Pat was running in F125 this year. And Mike Mulhall isn't running at all, he is overseas for a few months.

[Kevin M]

I thought Pat was running in F125 this year. And Mike Mulhall isn't running at all, he is overseas for a few months.

I thogut Pat was RNPing in the kart, and I didn't know about Mike.

[dknv]

I thought Pat was running in F125 this year. And Mike Mulhall isn't running at all, he is overseas for a few months.Did Mike already leave? What is he doing with the Boxster?

[MikeK]

Did Mike already leave? What is he doing with the Boxster?

Last I heard he was trying to sell it. I have no idea if he got rid of it though.

[Pat R.]

I will be running the S2k in AS until I get a bit more adept w/ the kart. Plus I have 3 1/2 sets of race tires to use up.

[cody]

Can I autoX with this damage? I'm wating for the autobody shop to get parts, so it won't be fixed before the Apr. 1st autox class.

The damage is only cosmetic, but I have a feeling this will keep me from running.

[Kevin M]

In the GCR, section 11.2 (http://scca.org/_FileLibrary/File/GCR2006.pdf) says that cars must have "appearance suitable for competition" and "appearance neat and clean. Specifically, "cars that...show bodywork damage...shall not be approved for competition." HOWEVER, I think I can let it slide since there is nothing under the solo rules that specifically mentions damage to the exterior, or that references the GCR inspection requirements. Plus, you're running novice, so you aren't protestable anyway. If we didn't want you and/or your car specifically to run, someone could probably use it as an excuse to bar you from entering, but I highly doubt anybody is going to take issue with it given that one of our region's primary goals is promoting our events to new members and increasing participation. However, it will probably have to be repaired before you can run at Club Trials. The Time Trial rules are basically the same as the GCR as far as tech inspection goes.

[Kevin M]

So, Dean... wanna run ESP?


Cars listed as eligible in and prepared to the current national Street Touring (ST) class rules are permitted to compete in their respective Street Prepared classes, with the additional allowance that they may use any tire which meets the requirements of 15.3 and fits on the ST-legal wheels and within the ST-legal bodywork.

[cody]

In the GCR, section 11.2 (http://scca.org/_FileLibrary/File/GCR2006.pdf) says that cars must have "appearance suitable for competition" and "appearance neat and clean. Specifically, "cars that...show bodywork damage...shall not be approved for competition." HOWEVER, I think I can let it slide since there is nothing under the solo rules that specifically mentions damage to the exterior, or that references the GCR inspection requirements. Plus, you're running novice, so you aren't protestable anyway. If we didn't want you and/or your car specifically to run, someone could probably use it as an excuse to bar you from entering, but I highly doubt anybody is going to take issue with it given that one of our region's primary goals is promoting our events to new members and increasing participation. However, it will probably have to be repaired before you can run at Club Trials. The Time Trial rules are basically the same as the GCR as far as tech inspection goes.
That's great news. Thanks Kevin. :cool:

[Dean]

So, Dean... wanna run ESP?Dang, I don't think I've read the intro in years... Very interesting... Technically, I could run TESP as well which is just plain humorous.

[M3n2c3]

Noob question that I couldn't find an answer to in the rulebook. . .

What does the "T" tacked on at the beginning of the class mean (TESP, TSM, etc.)?

[dknv]

Noob question that I couldn't find an answer to in the rulebook. . .

What does the "T" tacked on at the beginning of the class mean (TESP, TSM, etc.)?'The'.






j/k :)

Street Tire (140+ treadwear rating). You won't find it in the rulebook, it is a regional-specific label.

And, it does not apply to the already-designated Street Tire classes such as STX, STS, STU (although it Can apply to Street Mod, 'SM, which even though it has the name 'Street' in its classification is not really a street tired class); and it doesn't apply to Modified or Prepared classes (i.e. DM, BP, etc.) either.

Is it confusing yet?

[Kevin M]

Here's the supplemental regulation Jeremiah:

Street Tire Class:

For the year 2006 the Street Tire Class as run in the past years will be suspended. In place of the single Street Tire Class, cars running street tire (140 tread wear or higher) will compete in their normal classes handicapped by the current street tire handicap of .968. (Two seconds per 60 second course run time) The cars’ class letters will be prefixed by the letter T designating street tire. The cars on street tires will compete against the cars on DOT race tires for annual class points. No separate trophies will be given for street tired cars. Competitors may switch from DOT race tires to street tires or visa versa during the season and continue to accumulate class points. For example a car could run in ASL or TASL depending on the tires (including karts) will NOT be eligible for the Street Tire class.

All street legal classes will be eligible for Street Tire (including Stock, Street Prepared, SM/SM2, and SU). Prepared and Modified classes (including karts) will NOT be eligible for the Street Tire handicap

[MikeK]

Dang, I don't think I've read the intro in years... Very interesting... Technically, I could run TESP as well which is just plain humorous.

I thought your brakes kept you out of SP last time this came up. Did they remove the restriction on brake rotor size in SP this year?

<dean>Read the damn book</dean>

No, you read the damn book!

[MikeK]

I had a discussion with Jim Gandy a few weeks ago (we hang out a lot since we're such good chums after I accidentally won last year) ... he was thinking of proposing this change to the street tyre rules: if you have a treadwear of 140 - 200 or so, you get one handicap, and if it is over 200 (or whatever the higher number ends up being) then you get an even better handicap.

I think this is a good idea, then we can run $80 rubber and still be competitive :)

[AtomicLabMonkey]

DOT treadwear numbers are useless indicators of just about anything.

[Kevin M]

I thought your brakes kept you out of SP last time this came up. Did they remove the restriction on brake rotor size in SP this year?

<dean>Read the damn book</dean>

No, you read the damn book!

They would, except that in the intro to the SP section it specifically states that ST cars can run in their appropriate SP class provided they meet the ST rules 100%. Itis included in the section saying that American Sedan, IT, Touring, Formula, etc., cars can run SP. Dean just wouldn't be able to use any additional SP allowances like a flywheel or fender flares or wider wheels/tires.

[M3n2c3]

Street Tire (140+ treadwear rating). You won't find it in the rulebook, it is a regional-specific label.

And, it does not apply to the already-designated Street Tire classes such as STX, STS, STU (although it Can apply to Street Mod, 'SM, which even though it has the name 'Street' in its classification is not really a street tired class); and it doesn't apply to Modified or Prepared classes (i.e. DM, BP, etc.) either.
Here's the supplemental regulation Jeremiah: stuffOk, I get it. So if I'm running on re070s in Street Prepared, I'd be TDSP, but if I went nuts and bought some DOT legal race tires, I'd be DSP (and lose the handicap). And since Street Touring requires street tires with 140 UTQG anyway, the "T" prefix doesn't apply. So I'd just be STS.

Makes sense. Thanks guys :)

[Kevin M]

Werd.

[A1337STI]

Would an STI with any modifications that bump you out of Stock, be put into BSP ? and if i keep my stock tires (which are tread rated 140 ) then i'm TBSP? I'de like to buy some letters before next week. also how do we go about getting a number?

[M3n2c3]

Would an STI with any modifications that bump you out of Stock, be put into BSP ? and if i keep my stock tires (which are tread rated 140 ) then i'm TBSP? I'de like to buy some letters before next week. also how do we go about getting a number?
This PDF off of scca.org will give you a basic but insightful breakdown of what you can and can't do in each class. I actually reference this one regularly when browsing online for possible future mods.

http://www.scca.com/_filelibrary/File/solocategories.pdf

And you can order your number magnets (and helmet, harness, and a bunch of other useful stuff) here:

http://www.soloracer.com/index.html

[MattR]

also how do we go about getting a number?


Before you have a number made, just check with registration next weekend and see what cars are regulars in BSP.

[Dean]

Would an STI with any modifications that bump you out of Stock, be put into BSP ? and if i keep my stock tires (which are tread rated 140 ) then i'm TBSP? I'de like to buy some letters before next week. also how do we go about getting a number?It doesn't work that way. A single mod like removing your carpet might push you to prepared, not SP, ST, or SM... Pick a specific mod, and look it up, or post it and we might help. ;)

The cheapest way to do LEGAL numbers is:

1. Score some mag material from Tripp Plastics like $7 I think per foot of 24" wide stock. (Much better stuff than the Lowes vent covers)
2. Print some 900 point numbers, and some 500 point letters on your printer in the font of your choice (one of each)
3. Cut them out
4. Stick them to the mag material.
5. Trace the edges with pencil
6. Carefully cut out the mag material
7. Stick the first one to more material and trace it to make more of each as needed.
8. If you have a white vehicle, hit them with a couple coats of vinyl die.
9. Remember to make a pair of "1"s, and "L"s so you can easily have a co-driver, or heaven forbid, a lady drive your car. :)
10. If you are really board, make a couple "R"s as well for Run No Points

Mag material also makes great backing for any stickers of your choice.

You can also have custom numbers in custom colors cut and then stuck to mag material, but that may be a bit much to ask before next weekend. I'l let the guys who have that ability speak for themselves.

Oh, and Novices, You can actually get away with Single 8.5" X 11" paper numbers with the largest font you can fit an N, and a number on. Like 700 Point "N21"

[A1337STI]

Thanks for the info :) and oops, i have a K&N Air intake kit which is what i'm wondering about . air intake kits are permitted in Street Touring, but after reading the manual last night it seemed like an STI can't be in street touring and would go up to Street Prepared in the "B" class ? Also I plan on just using the stock tires which have a tread rating of 140.

[dknv]

1. Score some mag material from Tripp Plastics like $7 I think per foot of 24" wide stock. (Much better stuff than the Lowes vent covers)The vent cover magnetic material is thin and can come flying off of cars. I think a few of us have lost letters or numbers or stickers because of this.

8. If you have a white vehicle, hit them with a couple coats of vinyl die.Any light colored car should have dark or black numbers & letters, any dark colored car should have white. Key is to be able to see it clearly from the timing bus.
Don't do: yellow letters on a white car, or black letters on a dark blue car.

9. Remember to make a pair of "1"s, and "L"s so you can easily have a co-driver, or heaven forbid, a lady drive your car. :)hmph. Where's that homotron on board magnet? :P

[Kevin M]

Thanks for the info :) and oops, i have a K&N Air intake kit which is what i'm wondering about . air intake kits are permitted in Street Touring, but after reading the manual last night it seemed like an STI can't be in street touring and would go up to Street Prepared in the "B" class ? Also I plan on just using the stock tires which have a tread rating of 140.

Your STi is legal in STU, and in BSP with the intake. If you have engine managemnt like a reflash or Cobb AP (either of which I would highly recommend with any intake) then you would want to go to BSP so you can run altered boost and get full value from it. Plus, the only disadvantage that BSP has compared to STU is that you can't do brake upgrades, which aren't a big deal in the STi as far as autocross goes.

[A1337STI]

Thanks :) sounds good. I think i'll just order 2 blank 12X24 " white magnetic decals and Cut out some Letters & numbers (after i get assigned a number) . White leters on WR Blue should stand out well enough? (i could paint them red maye)

(long term planning/dreaming) Does porting a wastgate constitute a change in waste gate size ?

15.10 C.4.b) No changes are allowed to waste gate(s) size, number, or
location. No changes are allowed to variable-geometryturbine (VGT) hardware.

[sperry]

Port your wastegate and you're in Street Mod.

[A1337STI]

Again, Many thanks !! And Wow, so all while staying in Street Prepared i can change out my headers, up pipe, and add a TBE all with no Cats. (from what i've read on IWSTI i would have turbo creep) which would basically mean i'de have no turbo lag at all. which is a bigger advantage then being able to port the OE wastetage and not run around with boost creep. (i could maybe get the boost creep tuned around, or run with 1 Cat and not kill mother nature ) course i don't have money for any of that yet but just doing some planning , and it sounds like just starting off with an Access port and a Tune is a better route then headers/ exhuast :)

[cody]

Just get a shorty downpipe (retains the midpipe cat) and a tune for now. You'll be stoked.

[sybir]

hmph. Where's that homotron on board magnet? :P

I have no idea ;)

[rubberbiscuitt]

i've got class decidig turbo up-pipe issues. i have a cobb catless. i found this(edited by me):

14.11 STX.A.6. ...blah, blah, blah... Multiple catalytic converters
may be replaced by a single unit. ...blah, blah, blah...

so can i stay in stx because my pre-turbo cat was invoulentarilly made integral to the rear 2 stock cats? or is "replaced" exactly as stated and means "replaced"?

[MikeK]

so can i stay in stx because my pre-turbo cat was invoulentarilly made integral to the rear 2 stock cats? or is "replaced" exactly as stated and means "replaced"?

I think you just need at least 1 cat in total somewhere in the system.

[Kevin M]

Yup.

[A1337STI]

So i don't currently have any mods that would bump me out of Street Touring, (i thought i would be in Street Prepared becuase i wasn't able to find the STI listed in street touring) but i just found it in the apendix, It says its in STU . (guess the novice + writing numbers/letters in my windows is the very best plan as mentioned here) and after 4 days i can switch over to a real class and run for points. (not that i expect a huge driving improvement in 4 days, But competing for points will add in a large fun factor for me )
looking at the results from last year i only see 1 other car in STU , what happens if there are no other cars in your correct class ? (do you get bumped up 1 ? )

[Kevin M]

The 4 events bit only applies to bringing your points results to your class. You can run novice in every event, or you can go straight to STU or TBSP if you want. If you run TBSP you'd have zero chance of finishing in the points (thank QKSUBI and MattR for that) but you would have the benefit of 2 very fast drivers in very fast cars in your run group who can help you out tremendously. Or, you can run STU by yourself, get that first jacket out of the way, and still pick their brains since it's the same run group. :p

[MattR]

I'm still running TSM, so you'd only have to run against qksubi and Larry Capen in BSP.

[rubberbiscuitt]

fng's don't pick a class?

[A1337STI]

BanSuv, Great plan, :) i'll run in a class alone, (and hopefully win) LoL
do they actually hand out jackets ? or just bragging rights of "i got the jacket" sorta thing?
Course maybe i could talk SilverSTI into doing a Silencer Delete so he ends up in STU as well. :lol:

[bruspeed]

Hey Brian, Why don't you run STU? I just glanced at the card, but better pax, and you could win a jacket!!!

[A1337STI]

only if he can beat me and my lousy driving, oh wait he is already beating my times easily ... hmmf. what's that about careful what you wish for ? (he wouldn't even have to mod his intake huh? you can optionally choose to run in higher classes ?) He's a better drive then i am, but i would love the compitition. :P

[Kevin M]

Actually, TAS has a much better pax than STU. And competition is always good, which is why moving to BSP might be a good call for you stock/near stock STi guys. ;)

[A1337STI]

would i be Competitive or just be sacraficed in BSP with only my air intake kit ? (guess when i learn how to drive i'de be set) :)

[cody]

You just have to be sure your sprayer is turned off. I think that actually goes to an overall rule that you aren't allowed to drip fluids of any kind on the course or on grid. Boost changes are allowed this year in everything but Stock, so you're okay with any of that.
You sure I can run an MBC Kevin?

Edit: I'm asking if an MBC would kick me out of ESP.

[MikeK]

Umm ... don't you already have a custom pro-tune? Why do you need an MBC?

[Dean]

You sure I can run an MBC Kevin?

Edit: I'm asking if an MBC would kick me out of ESP.No, it wouldn't, but it isn't going to work very well on a Subaru...

If you don't already have a custom tune, buy Scott's ECU with EKUTek licence cheap, and get one. Better than any MBC.

[cody]

I have a custom tune. MBC's are bad on a stock ECU, but a good MBC should really help my boost response and isn't dangerous with a tuned map. Ed suggested it and assured me there's no need for a retune.

Thanks for the info.

[Kevin M]

What Dean said.

[sperry]

I have a custom tune. MBC's are bad on a stock ECU, but a good MBC should really help my boost response and isn't dangerous with a tuned map. Ed suggested it and assured me there's no need for a retune.

Thanks for the info.
Well shit, with logic like that, you should just reflash back to stock and run the MBC and UniChip I've got rolling around in my workbench drawer. I'll sell it to ya for only $50!

Think of it this way: if you install a MBC and set it to say 15 psi, sure you'll run right up to 15 psi in 1st and 2nd gear as soon as possible, and you'll avoid some of that boost wobble due to the factory EBC, but you're not going to be able to taper boost at high rpms. If you think you can run a stock turbo at 15 psi at 6500 rpm in 4th gear down the backstraight at RFR all day long, I've got a 2.0L shortblock in my garage I'll sell you, 'cause you'll need it. So, you're going to have to set the MBC to say 13 psi. Granted you'll have a nice rock solid 13 psi all day in every gear (well until the weather changes and you're under the hood w/ an allen wrench), but I'd rather have that 15.5 psi when it's safe and the taper to 13 psi on the top end making sure my motor will last.

If MBC's were so great, I'm pretty sure Subaru would have put one on the car to begin with 'cause they're about 1/50th the cost of the EBC.

[cody]

Prunage: http://www.seccs.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4678

[Nick Koan]

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't an EBC and an MBC bump you into SM? Since the boost is being altered in the ECU tune, isn't that considered modifying the EBC and adding an MBC, therefore putting you into SM?

[Dean]

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't an EBC and an MBC bump you into SM? Since the boost is being altered in the ECU tune, isn't that considered modifying the EBC and adding an MBC, therefore putting you into SM?Nope, Boost is open in SP as long as turbo and wastegate are stock.

[Nick Koan]

But I thought there was a rule stipulating that you could have electronic and manual means.

I haven't had time to look at the rules in detail, this was just something I remember hearing.

[Dean]

Boost regulation systems, either electronic or mechanical,
and electronic fuel cuts referencing boost pressure may be
altered or modified except as prohibited herein. Boost
pressure changes resulting from authorized changes are
permitted.Think that covers it.

[cody]

I RTFRB but didn't see anything about IC Hoses. Can anyone drop some knowledge on me please?

[Kevin M]

You can't do anything between the turbo inlet and the throttle body, except for the IC.. so I dunno actually.

[Dean]

You can't do anything between the turbo inlet and the throttle body, except for the IC.. so I dunno actually.You can touch pretty much anything you bloody want in SP now except the turbo and wastegate. Reread 15.10.c

[Kevin M]

No. It's really a non-issue for me, nothing other than the longblock is off-limits for NA cars. ;)

[Bob Danger]

I'm just going to RNP this season. Given the fact that I can only race sundays. However this is a good thing, given the fact that I can't be competative I have no reason to swap in another 16 valve, so in goes the AE111's 20 valve.

[cody]

You can touch pretty much anything you bloody want in SP now except the turbo and wastegate. Reread 15.10.c

I reread it again but I still don't know.

C. Induction allowances are as follows:
1. Carburetors, fuel injection, and intake manifolds are unrestricted.
Alternate throttle linkage and connections to facilitate
installation of allowed induction systems are permitted,
but may serve no other purpose. If an induction system item
is allowed to be removed and its original mounting bracket
can be removed by simply unbolting it, the bracket may be removed
as well.
2. Except for standard parts as defined in these rules, the external
use while on course of liquids, ice, dry ice, refrigeration
systems, vaporized compressed gases, etc. to reduce the
temperature of the intake air charge is prohibited. Wrapping
of intakes with liquid-soaked fabric is not permitted.
3. As utilized only on engines originally equipped with forced
induction, induction charge heat exchangers (known as “intercoolers”
or “charge air coolers (CACs)”) are unrestricted in
size and configuration. Air-to-air CACs and radiators for airto-
liquid CACs must be cooled only by the atmosphere, except
for standard parts. Body panels, fascias, or structural members
may not be cut or altered to facilitate CAC installation.
4. Turbochargers and/or superchargers (“forced induction”) may
not be added, changed, or modified. On vehicles originally
equipped with forced induction:
a) No hardware changes or alterations to turbocharger(s) or
supercharger(s), in size or number, are permitted. Turbochargers
or superchargers may be updated/backdated only
in conjunction with the accompanying complete engine
unit.
b) No changes are allowed to waste gate(s) size, number, or
location. No changes are allowed to variable-geometryturbine
(VGT) hardware.
c) No changes are allowed to supercharger drive system
pulleys. Belt tensioners may be added/changed to reduce
belt slip.
d) No changes are permitted to blow-off/pop-off valves.
e) Compressor bypass valves (CBVs) are considered part of
the air intake system, and may be replaced or updated/
backdated independently of the other components of a
forced induction system.
f) Boost regulation systems, either electronic or mechanical,
and electronic fuel cuts referencing boost pressure may be
altered or modified except as prohibited herein. Boost
pressure changes resulting from authorized changes are
permitted.

[Dean]

OMG... If you can change the IC, you can change the hoses....

[cody]

OMG :lol:

Yah, I thought the word "configuration" was key. If you can change the configuration, you'll need to change the hoses.

[cody]

Can you PP&C the stock turbo in ESP?

[cody]

I assume this means no?

4. Turbochargers and/or superchargers (“forced induction”) may
not be added, changed, or modified. On vehicles originally
equipped with forced induction:
a) No hardware changes or alterations to turbocharger(s) or
supercharger(s), in size or number, are permitted. Turbochargers
or superchargers may be updated/backdated only
in conjunction with the accompanying complete engine
unit.

[Dean]

I assume this means no?Correct, and thank you for playing... RTFRB home edition... :)

[cody]

Bummer. There's one for sale for cheap.