Whoops, you're right, that's what I was thinking of. I know nothing about the Ralliart Lancer... except that it's a Mitsu, and I'd be worried that my 10yr 100k mile warranty won't be useful because they'll be outta business in 3 years. :lol:

MSRP isn't a good benchmark of much of anything, especially this late in the model year, but after Tax and License, you will probably get somewhere back in it's range, so it is at least a starting point.I think everyone is trying to help get Jason the car he wants/needs. Unfortunately, unless someone on this board is a Valet Attendant that carries a notepad, G-Tech Pro, and tape measure, we are unlikely to come up with opinions that are much better than "It looks cool".

Lists are a starting place, but we also provided some great resources for Jason to narrow his search. I regularly assist people with car buying decisions, and between cars.com, Consumer Reports, KBB, etc. you will find the facts you are looking for as well as driving impressions. I would even be willing to loan my May CR issue which has all the cars in it if he would like.

Unless Jason wants to hand us the cash to go buy him something, car buying ends up being a very personal thing and takes a considerable amount of time, especially to get a good deal.(ask Debbie) Unless he wants to spend a bunch of time cruising Kietzke, doing some up front research will be a must to narrow the field, because as you can see from the list, the field based on price alone is much larger than your original short list.

Jason, go to cars.com and look at the cars on the list, look at their specs and narrow the list. Borrow my CR if you don't have one and check reliability, safety, and driving impressions and shorten the list further. Once you get under 5 cars or so, go drive them. Pick one, and then start they buying process… But that is another post for another time...

:lol: :lol: save the buying process for a different day even. It can be an event in it self :lol: :lol:

Actually, if you do it all up front by email/FAX and a very small amount of phone, the day of is usually pretty easy. It is all the BS before that is the issue. Probably the biggest thing to remember is to always be willing to get up and walk away when they start screwing around. Nothing scares them more than your leaving, or threatening to. Getting everything nailed down before walking in the door minimizes their ability to screw around a lot.

Mazda 3 -
Go to Carson City Mazda/Hyundai, see Curt & tell him I sent you - and I'll get a $50 kickback on the purchase of a new vehicle. :lol:

Seriously, besides base price of the vehicle, are any other criteria important? It sounds like reliability may be important based on the first post in this thread, and there are probably others (i.e. color/options availability, gas mileage, the list can get quite big).

When Dean posted the list from cars.com, not only is it a list, but it is a pointer to one of several resources on the web, that can be very helpful in searching in the right direction. I would recommend a mindset of taking time to do the right research, including getting people's opinions, researching the web resources, reading what car magazine reviewers have to say, and blend that information towards narrowing the list to 2 or 3.

But - if it were me, and I were going to buy a house soon - I'd wait on a new car purchase, buy the house, live in it a few months, then take an equity loan to get a car. But that's just me.

Actually no.

I'm pretty sure Jason's covered all the websites, from cars.com to edmunds.com, etc, etc, etc.

He needs the car now because, as was mentioned, his Neon is almost dead: blown head gasket... it barely starts in the morning and goes through more oil than it does gas.

I think Jason already narrowed his choices down to 2 or 3... with the Scion TC and the Mazda 3 at the top of the list. I put up this thread just to see what everyone's opinions were about these (and the others I mentioned) cars. I was hoping more for stuff like "the Mazda's motor is a little weak", or "I love the way the Focus handles", etc, you know, personal 1st hand info, the kinda stuff JC replied with. Basically I intended for this to be a thread about $16k cars, not a thread about how to shop for a car with obvious things like "do research and pick the car that meets your requirements"... of course you do research and pick the best car for your requirements! :lol:

Anyway, back on topic:

Jason, his GF and I went down to Mazda and Toyota at lunch to peep the 3 and the TC. I really dig the Mazda 3 hatch. It may be a little bit blukier than the older MP3 wagon, but I still think it's pretty nice. Plus the 3's can be had for a base price i the $13k's! Not a bad price for a decent car. I'm just worried that it's way underpowered.

Toyota didn't have a TC in house yet.. it was supposed to arrive today, but was late. They expect it tomorrow. Scion's are prices al la cart with fixed prices like Saturns are (or used to be?). So there's no hassle purchasing one. We check out an xB a bit. I'm a fan (as I've stated before) but I think Jason's turned off by the extreme-tissue-box look. :lol:

We didn't go by Ford. I still think the SVT Focus is the best deal if you can get one for around $16k. They've got all that extra horsepower and the LSD over the Mazda 3, but should handle just as good since their virtually the same platform. I also like the styling of the SVT better. I think I might have to test drive one just to see how fun they are.

:oops: OK, y didn't u say so in the 1st place?
Regarding dealerships - in my experience, Reno Mazda jacked up the sticker price with their markup, then told me they'd take a 'discount' of roughly 60% of their markup. Some discount. :roll:
But, Dick Lewis from SCCA may be able to hook you guys up with a no-haggle sales rep. Worth asking if he's actually going to buy from them.

I thought I did :lol:, but like all SECCS threads, this one went off topic and became the "How to buy a car thread".

At least we avoided the normal fare of monkeys, hygienists, and milkshakes.

Let me summarize...

Jason wants a car to haul butt, monkeys, mountain bikes, and have sex with hypnotized hot dental hygientists in.

Scott likes Box(y cars), LSD, the SVT and is easily distracted by milkshakes.

The rest of us just don't understand except Debbie and possibly Nicole since we are bad boys, and Jason is taking us all camping after he gets his new car, but we don't know where...

Oh, and I still like the Honda... Less HP, but lower weight, and more history...

That pretty much sums it up, except, don;t buy illegal brake ducts, you'll get banned... other than they, good summary.

a reply to this thread:

SVT

nonononono... I'm the one that wants to have hot monkey sex with a hypnotized hygienist... in Jason's car... while drinking LSD laced milkshakes... :P :lol:

The one thing about the Honda... it's a little too agressively styled I think for Jason's tastes... I dig it, but it *will* attract the attention of the ricers... aka, me. :lol:

This board is outta control... :lol:

No Kidding...I'm going to corner-carvers to start a drift thread... :lol:

Wait! we need to activate the phone tree again, so we can all watch you get banned! :lol:

I usually work well with an audience...

And lastly, if you wear the pentultimate Robe & Wizard's hat, while camping in tents, you may be able to perform above-mentioned hypnosis and not have to use gas & IV's to have your wisdom teeth removed.... :lol:

Too... many jokes... can't... breathe... head... exploding... :lol: :lol: :lol:

BTW: Reno Ford's got a red SVT Focus with the $3400 euro package (heated leather Ricaro seats, heated mirrors, sunroof, anthracite 10 spoke rims, HIDs, etc) The sticker says $22k. I think picking it up for $18-$19k would be a pretty sweet deal. I really like that car... however I have yet to drive it. If it's anything like Eric's Si, I think it would make for a sick daily driver!

Sorry to go on-topic here but when I drove the 3 I thought the power was fine. I drove a top of the line one though. It's not a car I would buy, but it's a fine car and sounds like the best choice for Jason IMHO.

JC

I didn't realize the new M3S model has 160hp. I was under the impression that the 3 had the same 130hp motor the MP3 had. I also think the 3 is a great car... maybe even better for Jason than the SVT because of the lower price and additional interior space.

However, I think the SVT is a much better looking car, and would be more fun to drive considering the 6MT and the LSD. I think for me the SVT is more my kinda car because it emphasizes fun and handling over utility. but I'm not Jason, and I don't know if that's as important to him as it is to me. The SVT certainly costs more, especially if you want the options.

We also check out the Scion tC today. Me no likey. It's not a bad looking car in person... very Tiburon... but I flat out don't fit in it. It doesn't look like a small car, but the seating position is such that my head hits the ceiling and the wheel is about a foot too far away! (I really don't know how they accomplished that one! :lol:)

Also the Scions are a bit underpowered. I was told they had the base model Celica motors in 'em... but they actually have the Echo motors! (Well the tC has the 160hp 4-cyl Camery motor.) I guess the gearing on the xB is dope, because riding in one certainly didn't feel like only 105hp.. but my guess is hitting the freeway would suck. :(

So... my vote for Jason:

SVT Focus ties the Mazda 3s Hatch for 1st
the tC takes 3rd
the rest go to hell. :P

Do I need to post a link to Matt's (another matt, not MattR's) focus that had the whole front wheel just fall off for no reason, or can we just end the whole "focus is good" thing right now?

Was it a 2004 SVT? I doubt it. Yeah the Focus has quality problems early on, but I've yet to hear about a problem with the '03 and '04's or the SVT.

Of the cars we've been talking about, I think the Focus is the best one.... performance, looks, fit and finish are all higher than the others.

The finish is most definatly not that great. The seats are uncomfortable, the interior is constructed of cheap plastics, and the looks are not great. The steering and handling for a FWD car are good, but not great, the power isnt there either. I dont know why you are so up on this car?