Quote of the day!

Just remember guys, there's a bit of a difference between the way Dean's nice, neutrally balanced AWD WRX amplifies mistakes, and the way a 400+ hp RWD beast amplifies mistakes. Accidentally get on the throttle too quickly in Dean's car: you plow. Do it in a Viper, you swap ends.

That said, it's really about the driver. Anyone who's out there to learn, and keeps the car under control and makes planned inputs will be fine. Anyone who's out there pretending to be Boris Said, drifting, early apexing, and pushing their limits is dangerous, regardless of the car under them.

I only do that in School Zones and busy freeway off ramps! :lol:


With that said... Let's get this thread back on topic...Probably wouldn't hurt to split today's discussion off anyway...

This is so funny because while I like my car, I love to get into other cars at stock levels to see what they can do, and I can do in them. Stock cars are much more telling of the driver's skills than prepared ones IMHO.

I'm not sure my car amplifies anything. (Didn't I say this already? Oh well...) You probably have to make 10-20% more total error in my car than a stock WRX suspension, but that margin disappears very quickly if you go 10-15% faster... Drive both cars at the same speed, and mine will mask a lot that would have made a stock car push, etc...

Laerning to drive a car well requires that you listen/feel the feedback the car is giving you. The better your suspension, tires, etc are, the less feedback you get, the slower you learn... Learn to make a stock car go fast, and you will be that much better in a prepared car.

Some of the Quattro Club instructors that fly in from other regions end up in Daewoo and similar automatic, underpowered, all season econo tired compact rentals. Watching them catch S4s and the like in the twisty bits is quite enlightening...

Ha! It amplified my pax time at the Divisional!

LOL :lol:

edit: due to Scotts split

She isnt that good... :p I couldnt get her to drive at the auto-x's she attended, let alone a track day.

What flags? :huh:

Okay, let me try to poitn out what I'm really saying in this newly created sub-thread. I know absolutely nothing about Mike's mom, her skills, her eperience, or her car. I am speaking purely hypothetically here. That said:

For a NOVICE driver, can any of you think of a car that is

A) More likely to come into a corner too hot, and

B) less likely to get loose when you try to decelerate too far into said corner?

That situation is lesson #1 for new drivers and it's usually not one learned in the driver's meeting. If she's not likely to make that mistake in particular, then chances are she, like any of us, is ready to learn to go around the track fast and safe.

Porsches (RWD).

reminds me of the quote: "Porsches understeer until they start to oversteer"

But all your grip are belong to Porsche!

Or,
All your voided warranties are belong to Porsche!

And Subaru, and Mitsubishi, and Dodge...

that was great - you win!

I thought older Porsches were notorious for swapping ends easily... that's why in the last few years the rear-end's gotten wider and wider to cram more and more tire under there, not to mention all the crazy active-aero that's been added.

They are. My friend had an old 911. Whenever we were playing with it we were all, "Let's not go too fast huh?" I think he swapped ends at least once, on the street. :lol:

JC

In my experience it has little to do with the car, and everything to do with the driver, and more importantly, the instructor sitting in the passenger seat doing his/her job.

And, if you insist on talking about cars, a WRX on RE92s and stock suspension is much more likely to come in hotter than the car can support IMHO than a Viper on stock rubber.

I'm not even sure what B means, but.... I beleive the viper is an incrediably stable car under braking with a stock alignment. The stock WRX would be much more prone to be loose. Things that would be less loose under braking would be any car with better grip, balance, and better ABS.

Remember, under braking, AWD is mosly meaningless, as is horsepower.

The water cooled ones are actually exceptionally well balanced, but I guess you mean the last few years of the air cooled ones. Yes, they were prone to oversteer, but mostly under power, not braking. They can be setup to grreatly minimize it though as we have seen out at autocross with some really fast older Porsches.