Get the Hankook tires. I had those on my car in NeedForSpeed.

I had the Fuzion HRIs on the evo. Good all seasons, junk for anything else though.

Ok so I decided to man up and get Summer tires so I was thinking I'd pull the trigger on the Hankooks, but aren't General Exclaim UHP better? After the $50 rebate, they're only a dollar more each.

Definitely going with the Generals after reading a bunch of the reviews. Ultra High Performance tires that you can use in the snow and they're quiet and comfortable while having a 380 tread ware rating and they're only $78 each after MIR? :huh: Um, ok.

I would not touch the Hankook Evos. I would not trust a tire that is already on closeout and has not been around long enough to get tested, or have more than 1 user review on a completely different size/car.

Man up and get the Fuzion ZRi

Never trust user reviews...

The Generals got their ass kicked by the Kumho SPTs back in the 2005 test, and the ZRi equaled or bettered the SPT in most every meaningful test in 2007

I have the SPTs as the street tires for my STI and they rock, but don't trust my review. ;)

I would but they're more expensive and I really like that the Generals can handle snow if necessary. I loved my Toyo Proxes 4's for that reason. They were great tires.

Nothing in the manufacturers data says snow and again, I would not trust a user claiming they do as far as I could throw them. They significantly under perform in the wet which you are much more likely to be driving in, and based on that, I would doubt they do very well in slush or full snow vs. any of the other summer tires.

Expecting any "summer" tire to handle snow is silly. Go to all seasons with some siping if you want snow performance like the HRi, but I wouldn't bother, A/S just suck at everything a little, they really aren't great at anything.

Yeah, the cheaper the tire, the less likely the reviewer knows anything about his tires other than black, round, and hold the car up.

I have a General some sort of tire, from Walmart. 195/65/14 . full size spare for the rally car. I've had to put it on a few times when i've popped /debeaded a tire romping around. all i know is it didn't blow up on me :) the tire i have from them are rated as M/S are you just looking for tires to DD on ? and you have dedicated winters?

Yah, check the first post Alex. :)

Well, here's my criteria in order of importance.

1. I want them to be a great value, meaining they'll last a long time AND be inexpensive.
2. I want a tire that won't kill me on the way home if I get surprised by a touch of snow or black ice that the weather report didn't call in time for me to switch to my Winters or I decide to push my luck when I probably should have switched to Winters.
3. I want them to be quiet and comfortable for road trips.
4. I want excellent grip in the dry and wet. I'm willing to sacrifice some resonse for a more comfortable ride so softer sidewalls are okay.
5. If they can stand up to an autocross because there's only one left in the season and my current autocross tires are corded, great.

Still think I should get something other than the General's Dean? Other input?

I am almost out of advice...

What is great value? Only you can decide... As someone who owns snow tires and autocross tires, you know what a good tire feels like. A tire you hate that lasts forever is not a value/deal IMHO.

What value does a tire that underperforms in our most common conditions, dry and wet.

Unless it has a Snowflake/mountain symbol http://tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:...wflake-158.jpg which equals much siping, it is going to suck on ice, period, black or otherwise. A touch of snow/slush = SLOW DOWN and have decent tread above the wear bars, the more, the better. Real snow = snow/ice tires.

I have A/S ASXs on the Audi and while they are better than the RE92s, they aren't good at anything. The Neros were a bit better at everything, but also cost 3 arms, two legs and a left nut. A/S tires are what you buy only if you do not have dedicated snows knowing they will be OK at best the first winter and suck every winter thereafter.

If you want cheap, there are way cheaper tires out there. Cooper, Mastercraft and others come to mind, but they are H or lower speed rated. If you want cheap, call around. TR and DT don't sell that crap.

What is $10/tire over 5-10,000 miles? Señor Cheap Bastard is all about bang for your buck, not cheap for cheap's sake.

P.S. What are your old tires, I need a full size spare or two for the Audi if one or two is decent. :) 225/45/17s?

My old AVS ES100's (which were my least favorite tire ever btw) are 215/45/17. Subydude talked me out of 225/45/17 saying they'd rub. Which is ironic considering he tried to sell me 17X9 wheels recently. :huh: Let me know if you want me to save you any of them.

I can see that you're a little bit black and white about things and that's fine. But the M+S rating on the Generals has to be good for something even if the reviews claiming they work decent in snow aren't. If you think they're a poor fit given my criteria above your last post, please let me know what you think is a better fit and why.

Also, it sounds like I haven't made it clear that I want a tire that lasts and is a good fit. I'm looking for a good investment over the long haul.

M+S has nothing to do with actual cold performance, it is a set of DOT design criteria that has no real world correlation to actual performance. That is why the mountain/snowflake thing was created by the industry to identify tires that actually work in snow/ice.

For a tire allegedly designed for the wet, they suck at it relatively speaking according to the test results. They are better in the wet than your ES100s, but got dominated by them in the dry and the SPTs which are the common reference tire for the ZRi crushed them across the board.

You drive in the dry 90+% of the time and they are substantially worse than your ES100s. That should be your answer right there!

Again, I have no first hand experience with anything but the SPTs. I am only looking at data and making relative comparisons. YMMV, NWEOI.

Want to put my SPTs on your car for a couple days? The data says they are fairly similar to the ZRi.

No thanks, looking for a 225/45/17 spare or two.

Huh, I guess I always gave M+S more credit since that's what Caltrans looks for when you have AWD and "snow tires" and drive through a chain check.

I'll have to put more research into this. It's just hard to ignore that the General's excel in exactly what I care about and are 5th out of 39 with a 97% score in the Tire Survey Results for Ultra High Performance Tires, (while the ZRi's are 17th with 90%) even though you guys are saying reveiws carry no weight compared to Tirerack tests.

Remember, most of the owner/reviewers have no foundation for their reviews.

Other than autocrossers, name another driver that actually drives two tires back to back.

Even when they compare what they took off to what they put on, they are often comparing an under inflated heat cycled, uneven wear tired tire to what they just spent a small fortune on. You also seldom know what they had before. Imagine a driver going from RE070s to ES100s vs someone going from RE92s to ES100s.

You will be hard pressed to find any tire running below 80%. How can that possibly be true. Nobody wants to say I got F'ed and TR doesn't sell the real crap, but since they only drive one tire in a performance category, their numbers don't relate to each other.

There is occasionally interesting anecdotal evidence, but you have to look at the car, driving style, tire size, etc. to remotely value any of those and even then assume it is largely BS.

TR has professional drivers that do real tests in a controlled and repeatable environment. Lacking other data, I trust them 1000% more than the user reviews.

I like CR data as well, but they stick mostly to A/S for the 1 wheel set drivers and ice tests.

RE-960AS? I love mine. They are quite a bit more than your other choices, but mine are going on 40,000mi and still did fine in the snow this winter. They have great dry traction too.

I've run, at last count, more than 15 different tire models.

On the wagon.
On the same basic suspension setup.
In summer, winter, rain, snow, ice, etc.
Swapping back to back, not when tires are worn out.
I've also run 5 different tire setups on the STi.
I've put over 230,000 miles on the two Subarus.

I'll go with Dean on not trusting user reviews on Tirerack or anywhere else.
But for god's sake, trust the locals who have run the stuff, on your car :lol:

That's why I started this thread. Unfortunately I haven't gotten much in the way of first hand experience based recommendations for tires that I would consider a good fit. Any other good resources for tire reviews/tests? I'd like to look closer at the UHP's and the ZRi'ss and tires like them.

I've been told that you can't trust wear ratings between manufacturers. So the 380 on the UHP's and the 320 on the ZRi's doesn't tell me anything?

What everybody is telling you is that what you want (a super cheap tire that doesn't suck at anything) doesn't really exist. Since you only own the one car and you need it to do some pretty different duties, you can't really depend on a compromise tire. Your choices are basically 2 sets (snows plus dedicated autocross tires that compromise in the cold/wet/slush, or snows + dedicated summer street tires that compromise at autocross and cold/slush) or 3 sets (snows, 3 season that aren't fun in cold, on slush or ice, autocross). The closest there is to a compromise is to use snows for one winter and then two summers, plus your autocross tires. Snow tires aren't much more than all seasons and if you have a good alignment they last plenty long.

To me, it comes down to the fact that a decent but not spectacular snow/ice tire (including all-seasons that shade towards winter traction) makes a better warm weather tire than the reverse. You'll never sweat over snow tires in August, but you don't want to catch that first ice storm on 3 seasons.

And yes, tread ratings don't compare between manufacturers as there is no testing standard. But generally speaking, a 400 rating on one model will last twice as long as a 200 of a different model from the same brand given basic highway driving conditions.

You say you want a summer tire, then say you want all-season - pick one.

I keep saying, the 912's are a great, cheap, 3-season tire. They're rated M&S, if you care. They're quiet, they last, they grip decently, and they're <100 per tire. You keep on searching for other tires, but need to decide on a use, then fit the tire to it. Decide how many wheels and tires you're comfortable running. Shit, I have 3 sets for each car at any given point, and I don't even autoX or live in the snow. I've got a good, snow-oriented all-season, a good 3-season, and a summer tire, or a set of full snows, or, god knows what else. My wall of mounted tires has a set of 912's, a set of Dunlop summer UHP's, a set of T1r's, a set of Continental ContiSports, Nexen all-seasons, RT615s....etc. Of course, I cange wheel slike I change shoes, and half my wheels fit both cars. Cars are an investment, what's a couple hundred bucks to have the right tires for the conditions?

Kevin makes a good point. Do you need max-performance when not autoXing? Get a tire that works well in snow, and run them into the ground. Rinse and repeat. I ran Dunlop snows on the STi for a few months prior to winter, and until it was 90+ out, they were awesome. They're soft rubber, they grip well, they're just a touch loud.

The other thing about snows is that liek all tires, as they heat cycle they harden and wear slower. I was over 30,000 miles on Dunlop Wintersport M2s on my blue coupe, of which probbaly 26,000+ were from the summer I was a courier driving to Sac everyday. They were little more than half worn when that car got totalled. My current Dunlop 3Ds look practically new after 6 months. I could easily get 2 more spring/summer/fall cycles out of them, or next winter plus the following summer I think. The days of getting one winter out of snows and chucking them are long gone.

I don't want to pigeon hole myself into a tire that excels only at one thing. Sue me for wanting a well rounded tire. :idea: I change my tires all the time too. I have 3 and a half sets of rims. Blah blah blah. Maybe I'm not wording my questions correctly. If you had to suggest one tire that comes as close as possible to my criteria, what would it be? Remember, they're in order of importance.

1. I want them to be a great value, meaining they'll last a long time AND be inexpensive.
2. I want a tire that won't kill me on the way home if I get surprised by a touch of snow or black ice that the weather report didn't call in time for me to switch to my Winters or I decide to push my luck when I probably should have switched to Winters.
3. I want them to be quiet and comfortable for road trips.
4. I want excellent grip in the dry and wet. I'm willing to sacrifice some resonse for a more comfortable ride so softer sidewalls are okay.
5. If they can stand up to an autocross because there's only one left in the season and my current autocross tires are corded, great.

None of us have an answer for you or the definitive review or comparison for you.

At some point, you have to suck it up and make a choice as we have all done before when changing tires to something new.

There is no magic do everything well tire, or we would all own them.

Pick something and put them on. If you don't like them, either live with it or take them off and sell them on Craigslist and get something else.

Or since you aren't running R compounds, you really don't need a set of 3 season tires, just run your autocross tires, and when they wear out, get the next set. As many of us have shown, the best Ultra performance summer tires do great in the wet as long as they have tread depth.

And I drove through pouring rain and snow on flipped over bald and corded 215s a few years back. You can drive anything in almost any condition.

Just get the set with the coolest tread pattern. Its a sure fire way to pick performance. Like when you see the huge truck tires with dinosaur claws or flames on the sidewall.