Pretty reasonable. Is that just stripped down to assembled short block, or all the way broken down to split halves?

Mine was split.

Who's SB? and where are they located?

SB= short block. AIMS is the shop in question. http://www.aimsmachine.com/

Pwned by lack of acronym knowledge. thanks :)

Thread reborn...

Just over 12 months from the fatal detonation at Thunderhill... The injectors are at C&C for testing and the completely torn down short blocks and internals have been to AIMS.

After an almost relationship ending miss-communication by Dave the young counter guy, after talking to Robert today at AIMS, we are back on track.

Both the '04 and '07 cranks polished up beautifully. Both sets of rods are fine. The '04 block after 100K miles and an almost broken ring land oil burning beast honed out to the high end of the larger STD "A" size at 99.512mm. Now that is a testament to how hard these sleeves are.

Now, knowing that, I would be willing to buy or suggest to someone else one of the "used" honed and re-ringed stock blocks the sand rail shop in So-Cal is selling.

The '07 block that had the burned through piston needs to be bored, but is hopefully salvageable. He is going to try for 0.010" over and then 0.020" over in that cylinder first and see if it cleans it up. if not, it is trash.

That is unless I want to run alcohol, bore to 0.040" over and have custom pistons made. The funny part is, in my case, the latter is not an issue as it is with most people, but alcohol is not an option.

By the way, the shop manual calls for Three Bond 1215, not Fujibond unless they are one in the same.

Now, what to do with the heads. I need to get those down there next. The '07 heads have to be inspected to see if the valves/combustion chamber got damaged in the piston failure. I am thinking about having the '04s fitted with 1mm larger valves and stiffer springs. At 100K miles, I am thinking it needs springs anyway.

Also time to order some ACL bearing sets unless AIMS can give me a decent price.

Are either of those blocks (the 07, or the so cal one) Legal for AS if i used them? i'm burning oil like a mo fo (I CAN burn off over a quart in a tank of gas if i'm on some dirt road in the middle of no where constantly beating on her)


sort of related question. if a motor won't turn over is that a sign that its ruined? My closed deck legacy turbo 2.2 motor **suposedly** won't turn over. I'm storing it at a buddies shop and he took my oil pump off (to use on a customers car) And left me a weird voice mail about my motor not turning off BUT maybe something was jammed into the fly wheel and he didn't look. :?: (sounds like BS to me)

anywho... Rarrrrg!

So-Cal. outfrontmotorsports.com Mine will have forged pistons, not S or SP legal.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SUBAR...Q5fAccessories

I wouldn't go 0.040 over on a Subaru block for any application certainly not one that is seeing the thermal stresses that a car being tracked is!

Running 0.020 over on a 500whp car with sufficient cooling for track use (both oil and water cooling that is) led us to find the following.

We would have to pull the motor after each event, every inspection lead to the same results. Bearings in perfect shape (could be reused if we wanted) at least a 20psi variance in compression test numbers between one of the holes (injectors always flowed and balanced, we had 4 sets for the car at the time) cylinder ovalization was apparent in the hole with lower compression. No sign of detonation anywhere!

We endured this for our first year of TA in our car. Until Darton released their full size ledged sleeves following that we now rotate and refresh every 4 events or so.

Something other findings to note,

Stock rods tend conduct random block oil changes at around 500whp.
10:1 compression yielded very unimpressive results regardless of fuel quality used.
After 600whp certain modifications become necessary to the block to keep the halves from walking around the crank.
Factory water pumps cannot be turned by hand with 10psi of pressure in the cooling system (take a look at the pulley on the WP to see if you have any tale tails of the belt skipping).
Removing the factory WP nets a decent gain.
90% of research we did online while developing the motor to where it is was as useful as a ash tray on a motorcycle!

Mike

That's crazy regarding the water pump!

You guys are running an electric pump now instead?

A little off topic, but do STi motors (running stage 2, as a daily driver) typically have the same ringland issues, after 100k?

Yea we switched out a little while ago, it wasn't a straight forward process but we seem to be where we need to be with it now.

Mike

I always wondered about the trade-off between ditching the drag from the mechanical waterpump and effectively moving it over to the alternator. Not to mention the hassle of adding a pulley or re-routing the timing belt in order to run w/o the WP.

Well the trick is to maintain the water pump housing and pulley without the internals ;)

The main issues really related to location of the pump (they have somewhat specific criteria) and managing the flow to maintain proper cooling.

As the car sits being bathed in the rain currently the car makes 658whp and has to have 2/3rds of the radiator covered for me to even be able to dyno it.

Mike

OK, I am going to mess with heads this weekend.

Anybody have whatever magical tool you need to compress valve springs and remove/install keepers?

A telephone?

...just call AIMS.

I'm reasonably certain you can get one at HF.

But, I'll just have Delta assemble mine after they do the porting and polishing.

Robert or Justin will probably end up rebuilding and going up 1mm on the valves on the '04 heads, but I want to check out the '07 driver side and see if anything is obviously damaged in cylinder 2.

Delta?

These guys technically: http://hstrial-customimporth.intuitw...com/index.html

Not local, but AIMS has done business with them.

Parts are starting to come in. It is very cool and I believe I have root cause.

While I am sure my tune contributed, Dave at C&C confirmed that injector #2 was under flowing by 10% and was definitely clogged, so could have been doing worse to much worse at times! Kaboom!

I need a WRX fuel filter bracket I think. I do not trust the STI in the tank filter, I have heard you can put a straight hose in it's place. I wonder how to flush the rails before reinstalling the injectors/intake? hmmm...

The '07 heads are at AIMS to be inspected/cleaned up. New ACL race bearings are in, so in theory, I could start block assembly.

Pistons are probably still 4 weeks out though. :(

I changed out my in-tank fuel filter a couple weeks ago, just on general principles (at 87k miles). The old one was discolored but showed no signs of clogging or any deterioration. It could be replaced by a section of fuel line if you were going to go to a filter up front. I considered this also, but keeping in mind the 60k service interval for the fuel filter I took the easy way out and just replaced the in-tank one. It's not a bad job. Remove the rear seat, pull the access panel, the whole assembly comes out through the access panel. The filter is ~$65 at the usual online Subaru OEM parts houses.

Rebirth part 2...

I have pistons.

It has been a long wait, but the engineering and time the guys at United Engine and Machine Company have put into the new Icon line of Subaru pistons is amazing. They are truly works of art and design. They are about 50grams lighter than stock and have a reinforced 2nd land complete with large accumulator groove.

I will take pictures later.

They are also going to be available in 5 sizes you and engine builders can actually use and maximize the life of your engine, not just 0.010" and 0.020" oversize.

With the hardness of the Subaru liners, my 100K mile motor easily honed out to just under the largest std. A piston size. No overbore required.

I'll post more in a review thread when I get a chance.

The block build up starts shortly.

That was the longest 2 weeks ever! Are you building the block yourself?

That is the plan with some help and advice. I have assembled a straight 4 before and helped on some V-8s.

Have plastigauge, ring grinder, ring compressor calipers and assembly lube. Will be taking pictures.

I am all ready to assemble if I can ever get together with SedonaBugEye to get the ring grinder?

Anybody else have one? Only need it for a few hours to do rings.

I think I have "dry fit" and Mic'd everything else.

The electric water pump mod sounds interesting.

5 months and many trials and tribulations later, the motor is together and ready to go in the car today!!!

Anybody want to help me jockey it into place? I have a nice heated garage to do it in.

I am jelous dean... You are putting a new motor in and I am
Taking a new motor out... Yes I started up my car to hear clank clank clank knock slap crack kaboom. Boy am I releaved I did not assemble my motor. Hope you have better luck! And if it was not my sons b day I would come help.

Just about everything is in and on and I am filling it with fluids.

I need to scrounge some silicone or metal 3" tubing 6" long to connect the stock box to my intake duct.

Well crap... It won't really start.

Appears to be firing only 1 cylinder. :(

Need to do some more diagnosis but need some food and bitching time first while I think about it.

Aaaaaaaaah!

Plug in cam sensor? J/K good luck with it.

Actually... don't forget the STi does have two cam sensors on the back of the heads for the AVCS system unlike the WRX motor.

No CEL, so unlikely anything electrical. After last time with the crank sensor that and cams were the first things I checked.

I was kind of afraid of this actually. I think I may have bent valve(s) when I was putting on the timing belt and have low or very low compression on the driver side bank. To start with I mixed up the TDC mark and the timing belt installation mark. So what I thought was valve spring resistance was piston contact. I did not push very hard, but I guess it may have been hard enough. :(

I'll check compression in the AM.

If that is it, I get to decide to pull the motor again or swap the head in the car. :(

Pull the motor. Swapping a DOHC head in-car would be a nightmare.

It would be hard to bend a valve unless you really cranked on it dean. good luck on this though

Subaru valves have very thin stems. Doesn't take much to bend them...

Stop it, stop it now!!!!

timing the motor? come on now there not that thin walled. You never know with subaru engineering i probably should not be surprised. FYI it would probably start with really mildly bent valves. Mine were thrashed and it still ran (poorly) good luck though dean and hopefully it is not the valves!

You should change your name to IhateSTI.

Blow yours up a few times and you might hate them too. :lol:

its a love hate relationship... Yes i agree blow a few motors up and you will probably feel the same. lol. In all honesty I love subaru i just wish they would make me a 2.5L close deck cast Iron block but dont we all wish that? I must have a chip on my shoulder. Went to AIMS yesterday and found out I jump timing on first start up on a brand new motor :( bent some valves. AIMS in my opinion is the best machine shop/ engine builder in town reconizing that this was NOT the customs fault and taking full responsibility. Every business/workers make mistakes but the ones who make it right i really like! AIMS FTW

Was it improperly installed tensioner or guides not adjusted properly? I don't know how you jump teeth without one of those being wrong.

That was one thing I was super careful about. compressing my tensioner took about 10 minutes doing it by the book and I did the guides with feeler gauges and a couple minutes each to get them good.

OK, Good but confusing news...

Compression test results from a stone cold never broken in engine at 45-50PSI oil pressure:
1=102 & combustion has occurred.
2=91 No sign of combustion
3=97 No sign of combustion
4=99 No sign of combustion
I was right, 1 cylinder was firing. Little woot

In theory, I think cylinder 4 should be the one that I should be worried about since isn't cylinder 4 also at TDC when Cylinder 1 is and therefore the one the intake valve could be bent on from contact during timing belt install?

That 91 is a little low but I don't think too low unless it is the cylinder that is also at TDC when one is.

So now what?

No CELs on attempting to start. Fuel is getting to at least the third one along the rails if I have the order right.

The only CELs I have disabled relate to TGVs and O2 sensors.

In theory C&C just(4-5 months ago) cleaned and flow tested all injectors and I would assume they would throw a CEL if the ECU could not talk to them. odds of 3 coil packs failing simultaneously = near zero.

WTF!!! 3 bad brand new NGK spark plugs? Guess I can check center continuity.

Follow up to above...

Dang, looking at a crank, it looks like 1&2 are at TDC at the same time, not 1&4. :(
Might have slightly belt that intake valve on C2. Will have to do a leak down test but that doesn't explain why it isn't firing on anything but C1.
All plugs show ~5KOhm resistance which matches old ones.

What are the best ways to check for spark and fuel presence?

If there's no carbon residue and no wetness on the plugs, you're not getting fuel to those cylinders. Did you double check the fuel supply routing?

Carbon = combustion. None

Wetness. Will have to try that. Pulled fuel relay and fired on 1 cylinder before opening up for comp check but no obvious residue of any kind on them.

Pressure line with angled gizmo closest to strut top goes on top, return next, smaller canister line on bottom. I had used the fuel pump to drain old fuel so I know which is pressure. Cylinder 1 gets fuel after 2 & 4 and 3 is last before the regulator so if 1 is firing, others should have fuel, just don't know if injectors are firing, but wouldn't it throw a CEL if they were not talking to the ECU?

I don't know If there is some special way to prime an injector.

How to test spark? Can I just ground the plugs. Don't want to hurt the packs or anything else.

I can't imagine it is possible to put 3 coil packs on with the "boot" missing the plug and have them go on and off easily and bolt line up and finger tighten easily is it?

Any more info on your problem yet dean? I am curious to know what it was. It will not hurt the coil pack to check for spark either. You will know very quick if the plug arks to anything. If the boot does not go over the plug you will know quickly. I wonder if you can switch the coil packs to the opposite side that they are currently on. I know with my Hydra ECU it will not start if the coil packs are on opposite sides. I randomly ran across that on nasioc not to long ago but i do not know if the same rule applies to factory ECU. You might have mentioned this but did you make sure everything is grounded properly? Does your battery have more than 7 volts (i think that is the minimum amount that it will actually allow it to start) You have already covered the fuel lines being on properly correct? I just cant see the car not starting with slightly bent valves. I had crawford aftermarket timing belt idler pulley's that swivel and one of them moved causing my car to jump timing, bend 4 valves pretty bad and yet it still started. it was not until i got out of my car and near my engine bay where i heard the valve to piston sound and then turned it off. I mention this because i refuse to believe you should bend valves that bad from timing your car to not allow it to even try to fire. Good luck and keep us informed!

Been away since last week so no progress. Will be testing more later today.

Left and right coil packs???? Will have to check part numbers, but I think they are all the same. Not sure how you could mess them up so only 1 fires though. I also have 4 more from the '04 motor I could swap in.

It probably wouldn't hurt to check fuel pressure too, but again if it was low why would 1 be firing.

I have some sidefeed sti injectors u can borrow to trouble shoot of u believe it might be an issue. Let ne know

I think all the coil packs are the same. He's just saying if you've got the harness flipped over the left side packs won't fire the right side cylinders, and vise-versa.

Any chance you've got like the #2 and #4 coilpacks swapped? That might cause #1 to fire, #3 to misfire, and #2 and #4 are just totally out of time? (I'm just guessing... I don't remember the firing order off hand to know if that's really probable.)