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cody 2009-04-28 09:18 PM

You've been so much help Juicy. :lol:

Wow Dean, you really are running out of advice. :P Why do you think I'm just sitting around chumming the waters...I'm driving on the RE01R's happily at the moment. My Rotas just look better so I want to put something cheap on them. :lol:

Dean 2009-04-28 09:39 PM

So, move your autocross tires over to them and stop whining.

cody 2009-04-28 09:42 PM

Man, you aren't living up to your title in this thread at all. :P Why waste expensive, awesome autox tires on the street. I'm looking into hooking up some Kumho Ecsta SPT's for wholesale. Keep your cheap bastard fingers crossed! :lol:

Oh, and the Enkei's are a couple pounds lighter than the Rota's which is one of the reasons I run use them for AutoX. Also I have 2 full size spares with burnt RT615's on them.

Kevin M 2009-04-28 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cody (Post 133288)
1. I want them to be a great value, meaining they'll last a long time AND be inexpensive.

This one's easy; buy the cheapest tire you can find with a treadwear over 340 or so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cody (Post 133288)
2. I want a tire that won't kill me on the way home if I get surprised by a touch of snow or black ice that the weather report didn't call in time for me to switch to my Winters or I decide to push my luck when I probably should have switched to Winters.

This one pretty much directly contradicts the first one in terms of tire construction. The things that make a tire not suck on ice are not the things that make them long lasting or cheap. Do you want a tire that's actually good in that April or October snow storm over Donner, or is just mediocre-but-won't-be-disastrous okay?

Quote:

Originally Posted by cody (Post 133288)
3. I want them to be quiet and comfortable for road trips.

This is easy to find too, if you aren't looking for superior dry or ice grip, just passable. Most all seasons are pretty quiet, except for the ones that really get complained about. And the cheaper non-M&S tires tend to be cushy and quiet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cody (Post 133288)
4. I want excellent grip in the dry and wet. I'm willing to sacrifice some resonse for a more comfortable ride so softer sidewalls are okay.

Throw this one out. Cheap, long lasting, and "excellent" grip in any one condition don't exist in a single tire.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cody (Post 133288)
5. If they can stand up to an autocross because there's only one left in the season and my current autocross tires are corded, great.

Probably also available in a cheap, somewhat quiet and comfortable summer tire. All seasons tend to land on a spectrum between decent in winter and unable to handle autocross abuse, or sturdy but too hockey puckish in the winter. One is pretty much inverse to the other.


I guess the best recommendation I can make is to throw out the super-cheap requirement and get something like the Falken 912s, or the newest version of those Toyos you've said in the past you really liked. It's either that, or go with something economical that you won't like getting caught in snow on, or want to autocross unless it's the difference between getting 6 or 8 points in the last event weekend or none. But if there was a very cheap, 3-year tire that approached a true snow tire in winter and a high performance tire at autocross, it wouldn't have taken us this much thread to come up with it. ;)

Kevin M 2009-04-28 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cody (Post 133305)
Man, you aren't living up to your title in this thread at all. :P Why waste expensive, awesome autox tires on the street. I'm looking into hooking up some Kumho Ecsta SPT's for wholesale. Keep your cheap bastard fingers crossed! :lol:

You mean the tire Dean mentioned first? :lol:

And it's not "wasting" your autocross tires if you don't use them on the street until after you've had them a season or two. That also makes it easier to stretch your winter tires an extra 4-6 weeks at both ends of winter to almost guarantee you don't catch a snowstorm on your autocross tires. So maybe 3 sets- snows from the day after the last autocross to the day before the first one, fresh tires for competition, and last year's autocross tires from May-September on the street?

Dean 2009-04-28 09:48 PM

You don't like our answers and keep reposting your requirements like we didn't read them.

I have moved on from advice to ridicule. :)

cody 2009-04-28 09:51 PM

Yah, "just mediocre-but-won't-be-disastrous" is all I'm going for with #2.

I know Dean mentioned them. They scored #1 in both TR tests, but they were out of my price range at normal price.

cody 2009-04-28 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean (Post 133308)
You don't like our answers and keep reposting your requirements like we didn't read them.

I have moved on from advice to ridicule. :)

I reposted them once to help you guys focus. :P

A1337STI 2009-04-28 09:58 PM

Just buy some damn Traction T/A's in the higher speed rating. they are a damn awesome tire, at everything!!!!. not sure if they are as cheap as you want, but closet thing i've driven on. they let my 1 legged 93 drive up spooner on some surprise snow!! great wet and dry, amazing traction on Dirt:D

just go with your stock size, for your stock rims then.

Goodyear Eagle GT for 89$ for a 16"
BFGoodrich Traction T/A V for $97 , Amazing tire, omfg.

cody 2009-04-28 10:00 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Consumer Reports from 2008-Summer Ultra High Performance Tires

Quote:

GUIDE TO THE RATINGS

Overall score emphasizes safety-related tests, including braking, handling, and resistance to hydroplaning. Displayed scores are rounded; models are listed in order of precise overall score. Scores and ratings are held to a comparative standard within a tire category. Dry braking was from 60 mph and wet braking was from 40 mph with the antilock brake system engaged. Dry handling includes how well the tires gripped in an avoidance maneuver involving a swerve into the left lane and back into the right lane; dry cornering grip on our skidpad; and subjective steering feel. Wet handling includes wet cornering on our wetted skidpad and subjective handling ratings from our wet-handling circuit. Hydroplaning reflects how quickly we could drive through standing water before the tires began to skim on the surface. Snow traction reflects the distance our test car needed to accelerate from 5 to 20 mph on moderately packed snow. We tested ice braking on a skating rink from 10 mph with the ABS disengaged. Rolling resistance, measured on a dynamometer, is a factor in fuel economy. Ride and Noise reflect our on-road judgments. Tread life is an indicator of wear potential from CR's 12,000-mile mixed driving test and is not part of the overall score. Size tested: 225/40ZR18

cody 2009-04-28 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A1337STI (Post 133313)
Just buy some damn Traction T/A's in the higher speed rating. they are a damn awesome tire, at everything!!!!. not sure if they are as cheap as you want, but closet thing i've driven on. they let my 1 legged 93 drive up spooner on some surprise snow!! great wet and dry, amazing traction on Dirt:D

just go with your stock size, for your stock rims then.

Goodyear Eagle GT for 89$ for a 16"
BFGoodrich Traction T/A V for $97 , Amazing tire, omfg.

No way. I have Dunlop Wintersport 3D's on the stockers and love them because they do it all but they chunk when pushed at all and wear out quickly in the Summer according to Scott. They gotta fit my Rotas and they gotta be cheap.

cody 2009-04-28 10:07 PM

1 Attachment(s)
CR 2008 All Seasons Ultra High Performance.

Quote:

GUIDE TO THE RATINGS

Overall score emphasizes safety-related tests, including braking, handling, and resistance to hydroplaning. Displayed scores are rounded; models are listed in order of precise overall score. Scores and ratings are held to a comparative standard within a tire category. Dry braking was from 60 mph and wet braking was from 40 mph with the antilock brake system engaged. Dry handling includes how well the tires gripped in an avoidance maneuver involving a swerve into the left lane and back into the right lane; dry cornering grip on our skidpad; and subjective steering feel. Wet handling includes wet cornering on our wetted skidpad and subjective handling ratings from our wet-handling circuit. Hydroplaning reflects how quickly we could drive through standing water before the tires began to skim on the surface. Snow traction reflects the distance our test car needed to accelerate from 5 to 20 mph on moderately packed snow. We tested ice braking on a skating rink from 10 mph with the ABS disengaged. Rolling resistance, measured on a dynamometer, is a factor in fuel economy. Ride and Noise reflect our on-road judgments. Tread life is an indicator of wear potential from CR's 12,000-mile mixed driving test and is not part of the overall score. Size tested: 225/40ZR18

Kevin M 2009-04-28 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cody (Post 133318)
CR 2008 All Seasons Ultra High Performance.

Notice how the overall scores trend to the opposite of the snow traction rating. If you are willing to be a little more conservative with when you keep your snows on, your choices are a lot less limited.

cody 2009-04-28 10:11 PM

Man, I can't believe how low the Toyo Proxes 4's scored. Maybe the fact that I ran them in 225/50/16 and the ES100's in 215/45/17 explains my skewed view, but the P4's rocked in the dry and wet, lasted a long time, were quiet and cheap and worked as well as the RE92's in the snow. But I know the 912's are better and priced similarly if not less.

A1337STI 2009-04-28 10:12 PM

Just buy them in 17's then, or get the good year GTs which are cheaper, and are still rated for snow (and thus ice) I've driven mine on ice. you'll make it, just go slow. they have low snow traction for sure, but its predictable. Dry icey roads its way better then when the snow is a bit wet. so like when its late at night and 20F out, better grip then sunny and 35 with wet snow around. odd but that's what it felt like ...

When i get a new battery in my STI i can let you drive it, to feel the tires. they are good.
215/45ZR17 $98 ! :) Do It !! Cody is a baller with like 5 sets of rims!

Kevin M 2009-04-28 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cody (Post 133316)
No way. I have Dunlop Wintersport 3D's on the stockers and love them because they do it all but they chunk when pushed at all and wear out quickly in the Summer according to Scott. They gotta fit my Rotas and they gotta be cheap.

So don't push your snow tires hard. Seems obvious to me. :p And Scott has a slightly different experience with his Dunlops than me, but his car does have 1000 pounds on my wagon, they're wider which generates more heat, and he may not drive as much like a pansy as I do when I'm just getting from point A to B.

cody 2009-04-28 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin M (Post 133319)
Notice how the overall scores trend to the opposite of the snow traction rating. If you are willing to be a little more conservative with when you keep your snows on, your choices are a lot less limited.

Yah, I guess that and Dean's point that any summer tire with tread is better than bald Winter tires lends clout to Summer tires for the Rotas.

But wait! Why are the General Exclaim UHP's listed under All Season UHP? And why aren't they kicking ass in the dry and wet??? At least they confirm their great hydroplane resistance but why would they have great rolling resistance with their supposedly soft sidewalls? Can I trust CR?

cody 2009-04-28 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin M (Post 133322)
So don't push your snow tires hard. Seems obvious to me. :p And Scott has a slightly different experience with his Dunlops than me, but his car does have 1000 pounds on my wagon, they're wider which generates more heat, and he may not drive as much like a pansy as I do when I'm just getting from point A to B.

Which is why they haven't been on the car for over a month. :P

cody 2009-04-28 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A1337STI (Post 133321)
Just buy them in 17's then, or get the good year GTs which are cheaper, and are still rated for snow (and thus ice) I've driven mine on ice. you'll make it, just go slow. they have low snow traction for sure, but its predictable. Dry icey roads its way better then when the snow is a bit wet. so like when its late at night and 20F out, better grip then sunny and 35 with wet snow around. odd but that's what it felt like ...

When i get a new battery in my STI i can let you drive it, to feel the tires. they are good.
215/45ZR17 $98 ! :) Do It !! Cody is a baller with like 5 sets of rims!

:lol: I'm like the anti-baller. More than half my net income goes to my mortgages but at least they're my only debt.

Your STi is awesome on those tires. I can't believe they didn't chunk when you ran on them on Saturday and they were great on tarmac and off when we went on the rally stages a month or so ago. Now where are you seeing them? Tire Rack doesn't have them available in 215/45/17 or 225/45/17.

A1337STI 2009-04-29 12:30 AM

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Sizes....rtnum=055VR6GT there

Dean 2009-04-29 06:01 AM

Good find on the CR charts. I will have to go find that article. I missed that they did UHP stuff last year. If you haven't read CR articles in the past, they do not have the same criteria as TR, so it is kind of apples to oranges, though notice the SPT and ZRI still end up right next to each other.

Notice the General's rating on ice and how other than hydroplaning, they are not good at anything else.

Heck none of the A/S are really good at much of anything in any conditions! (Who said that before?) The 4th from worst summer tire equals the best A/S in the wet!!! What a huge loss for some minuscule alleged snow performance. :rolleyes:

I'll go find the article and see if it has anything interesting in it.

cody 2009-04-29 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A1337STI (Post 133335)

Cool, they're $102 in 225/45/17. I'll see if I can hook up a deal on 'em.

Kevin M 2009-04-29 09:09 AM

Dude... the clearance RE-01Rs were $103 in 225/45R17. YOUR RETARDED. :lol:

Dean 2009-04-29 09:15 AM

That must be an on-line rating/article, it does not appear in any of the 2008 CR issues I have.

Just buy the SPT or ZRI and be done. A/S suck!

cody 2009-04-29 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin M (Post 133347)
Dude... the clearance RE-01Rs were $103 in 225/45R17. YOUR RETARDED. :lol:

I know, but at the time, I thought my Yokos would last the Summer...so go ahead and buy me the shirt. :| Plus they don't exactly fit my criteria.

Dean, they are from an online article. I'll try to post the text soon.

A1337STI 2009-04-29 09:35 AM

There are some 245/40/17 Kuhmo V710s for 170 ish :( $700 for a set of 245 R comps... yummy but i should probably fix my motor(s) first

cody 2009-04-29 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean (Post 133348)
That must be an on-line rating/article, it does not appear in any of the 2008 CR issues I have.

Just buy the SPT or ZRI and be done. A/S suck!

I don't think I'd be disapointed with the 912's or similar but the SPT's (and the ZRi's?) could cover me for a couple autoX's if my RE01R's don't last the season.

cody 2009-04-29 07:05 PM

I updated posts 60 and 62 which have test results with the "guide to the ratings". Here is the text of the ultra high performance article.

Quote:

Ultra-high-performance tires
Big grippers
Last reviewed: January 2008
VIDEO:
Tire Testing
All videos
In our test of summer and all-season ultra-high-performance tires, we identified a few excellent tires from Falken, Michelin, Nitto, and Pirelli and found big differences in performance among models in the group.

These tires, also called UHP, are designed to offer tenacious grip and superior handling. Once found only on high-end sports cars, they are now on a wider variety of cars, including sports sedans and more-affordable sports cars, such as the Mazdaspeed3 and Saturn Sky.

UHP tires are Z-rated, meaning that they're capable of sustained speeds of 150 mph or more, and they often come in wheel diameters of 17 inches and up. As a trade-off for grip and handling, these high-end tires might be hard-riding and quick-wearing. The summer tires are useless on snow or ice.

We tested 21 sets of summer UHP tires and 15 sets of all-season UHP tires. Prices for both types ranged from $80 to more than $200 apiece for the 225/40ZR18 size we tested. Most summer UHP tires handled the important challenges on wet and dry roads very well. The all-season UHP gave up a little performance in return for better capabilities in wintry conditions. We found wide variations among the different performance categories, such as handling, braking, and noise, so there's plenty of room for the consumer to choose a tire tailored to individual preferences.


Audi driving around cones
WATER RIDE To test wet handling of ultra-high-performance tires, we drenched our new 2.5-acre dynamics area, then had drivers run quickly through a coned course.
A NEW TEST FOR TIRES
This year we ran a new wet-pavement test geared toward UHP tires. We created a handling course through closely spaced highway cones and wetted the pavement so the surface was slick. Then different drivers took turns pushing our Audi A3 3.2 test vehicle to its limits through the course on each set of tires.

We combined those results with our standard wet-cornering test, in which we drive at ever-increasing speeds around a circle of wet pavement, noting a tire model's peak lateral grip.

We hired a contract laboratory in Texas to conduct tread-wear testing for us on the government's tread-wear course, which is a road circuit designed to mimic both city and highway driving. We measured tread loss up to 12,000 miles of use. That lets us compare relative tread life from one set of tires to another.

Historically, tread life has been a low priority for UHP tires, and many don't carry tread-wear warranties. Most UHP tires still wear more quickly than lower-speed-rated counterparts. We found that wear varied from model to model and is worthy of consideration when considering which of two similar models to buy.


Performance evaluations

Overall scores in our all-season UHP tire and summer UHP tire Ratings are a weighted average for summer and all-season UHP tires emphasizing safety-related characteristics such as braking, handling, and hydroplaning. For all-season tires, snow traction and braking on ice are also factors.

Noise, comfort, and rolling resistance account for less in the overall score. Rolling resistance ratings, which relate to fuel economy, span from fair to excellent. To see how much fuel savings can be expected, we ran a highway fuel-economy test on the all-season UHP tires rated best and worst for rolling resistance and measured a 1.1 mpg difference in fuel economy.

We subjectively rate tire noise on smooth and rough asphalt and concrete surfaces. This year, we found two tires to be particularly noisy, the Toyo Proxes 4 and BFGoodrich g-Force T/A KDW2. The KDW2 was so noisy, it's only suited for hard-core enthusiasts.

We rate tread life but do not provide projected mileage to wear-out since it will greatly vary by how, where, and what you drive. Still, after our 12,000-mile test, the summer and all-season UHP tires were about 40 percent worn out.

Our tread-wear test was already in progress when we purchased the Pirelli P-Zero, so a rating for tread life is not available for that model.

Summer UHP tires focus on dry and wet grip, but the all-season UHPtires compromise some of that for winter grip. Some all-season variants, such as the Falken Ziex ZE-912, lean toward three-season performance; several other tires, such as the Continental ContiExtremeContact and Michelin Pilot Sport A/S, offer more credible winter grip.


This report was originally published in November 2007, the information presented here is current.
Man, they really beat up the Proxes 4's that I loved so much!

Kevin M 2009-04-29 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cody (Post 133420)
Man, they really beat up the Proxes 4's that I loved so much!

Well, when you had those, you were one of those hosers who knows nothing about tires. :p

cody 2009-04-29 07:55 PM

I was actually thinking the same thing. :lol: I bet I'd find the 912's amazing.

Kevin M 2009-04-29 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cody (Post 133422)
I was actually thinking the same thing. :lol: I bet I'd find the 912's amazing.

Right up until you took the Spaghetti Bowl at RT615 speeds. ;)

cody 2009-04-29 10:00 PM

1 Attachment(s)
I only take them at RE01R speed and then I jump the drawbridge.

The 912's would be better suited to my winter rims. I still like the General's at $78 each and the Kumho SPT's for $74 each (if I can get them at wholesale).

There's also these.

Dunlop SP Sport Maxx
http://www.tirerack.com/images/tires...maxx_ci2_l.jpg

I'd take the $75 Amazon card which might make them a better investment...or at least a more badasser investment. Apparently they ride rough but are quiet. Despite the 240 tread rating, CR says they rate 4/5 for tread life.

But I'd have to roll my fenders.
http://www.tireboy.com/bridgestone_p...ifications.htm
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Spec.j...irePageLocQty=

cody 2009-04-29 10:07 PM

Or would I? The RE01R's that barely fit have a tread width of 8.3" while the Sport Maxx's are 8.2" but the Sport Maxx's have an overall section width of 9.5" while the RE01R's are 8.9". Does a larger section width mean more bulge and more likely to rub my fender?

See the two links above for a visual representation of what I'm saying.

Dean 2009-04-30 05:47 AM

They are your streets, get the right size/circumference... You already have a short 5th gear...

cody 2009-04-30 08:27 AM

They're .6" shorter than the stock size RE92's in overall diameter according to TireRack.

"When your speedometer reads 60 mph, you're actually going 58.9mph"
http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html

I have never considered the 5MT to have a short 5th gear and their good rolling resistance rating should make up or help make up for gas milage losses due to their size. Maybe?

Dean 2009-04-30 08:34 AM

Try driving 1/2 way across the country at max cruise, 89MPH, with a race exhaust and race suspension. You become quite atuned to how high the engine is reving as it drones on hour after hour...

STi in 6th is about 1000 RPM lower at freeway speeds.

If you want lower rolling resistance, go to 205 or 215s, not up to 235! BUT THAT WASN'T ON YOUR LIST... :P Just going from 225 to 235 probably gives back any gains due to compound.

cody 2009-04-30 08:35 AM

But they'd be so manly! :P

So any guess as to if they'd rub or not?

Kevin M 2009-04-30 08:42 AM

Even at $133 I'd probably go with the SPTs personally. Or BFG G-Force Sports.

Dean 2009-04-30 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cody (Post 133441)
But they'd be so manly! :P

So any guess as to if they'd rub or not?

OK, Mr. Manly yellow car owner... Some 205s on some Daisy wheels would be perfect for you. Or maybe teddy bears you could rub.


I'm back to ridicule if you hadn't noticed.

cody 2009-04-30 08:55 AM

Bump for would the Sport Maxx's rub?

Kevin M 2009-04-30 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cody (Post 133448)
Bump for would the Sport Maxx's rub?

Maybe. More likely than 225/45s.

cody 2009-04-30 09:24 AM

Even though the tread width is .1" narrower?

Kevin M 2009-04-30 09:31 AM

Section width is what counts.

cody 2009-04-30 09:35 AM

Which is .6" wider on the Maxx's. That's what I figured, thanks.

Dean 2009-04-30 09:53 AM

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete...e.jsp?techid=7
http://www.tirerack.com/images/tires...tire_dimen.gif

It is likely that it is .6" difference when the tires are only 10mm different is because the measured rim is different.

k-dogg39 2009-04-30 10:13 AM

Just get it over with and roll your fenders, then you can stop worrying about rubbing...:D

cody 2009-04-30 10:23 AM

I know. As soon as somebody announces a fender roll day, I'm in.

cody 2009-04-30 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean (Post 133457)
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete...e.jsp?techid=7
http://www.tirerack.com/images/tires...tire_dimen.gif

It is likely that it is .6" difference when the tires are only 10mm different is because the measured rim is different.

Good diagram. I can see why section width is what decides if they'd rub. I don't think I have .3" to spare between the rear fenders and the tire. They're more than I want to spend anyway.

Kevin M 2009-04-30 10:30 AM

Yeah, that price is right there with Hankook RS2 and Falken RT615.

cody 2009-04-30 10:39 AM

They'd last twice as long though...and behave better on trips.


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