Let's talk Exhaust!
 

So, I am in the market for a full Turbo back Exhaust for my car...
My needs are for a TBE WITH 1 Cat.

I like the Invidia Product, but it doesn't come with a cat.
I can get the Perrin with a Cat, but it's rather pricey.

I talked to Nate about the placement of a high flow cat, basically running a catted downpipe vs. a catted midpipe, etc. In his opinion, and from his experiences, he sees the best results from catted midpipes, contrary to what some of us were discussing last night.

Now, I can splice a cat into an Invidia system, placing the cat at the Base of the downpipe where it meets up with the mid pipe. Is this a legal position for my required cat for Street mod? It will be approx. 6 to 8 inches from the OEM position of the downpipe cat, So the way I see it, it should be legal. Basically, it should be a verey similar setup to what Vishnu puts out.

My plan is to go ahead with this addition of a cat to an Invidia system. I just want to make sure I have the class-legality all figured out.

Also, has anyone else seen any good TBE w/ cat systems I should check out?

have you looked at the APS High flow cat system? they put the cat in the location Nate wants with the Invidia.

http://mzmperformance.com/Merchant2/...ory_Code=SubEX

I do beleive that is legal because you would be within the distance required.
the second cat is at the bottom of the downpipe.

Mike, I was actually really interested in that exhaust, until I heard they are having a lot of problems with their cats breaking up. Nate said he's seen 2 like that, which have come apart inside the cat. I guess they are working on measures to curb the vibration which is killing their cats. So, I think I'll pass on that one. Otherwise, it would be ideal.

there are alot of systems that have high flow cats,

Cobb

Helix High Flow Catted Downpipe STI w/ some other cat back

TurboXS Turbo Back Exhaust (Catted) STI

MRT Turbo Back Exhaust System w/ Cat

AVO Turbo Back Exhaust System w/ what looks like a cat :D

Zerosports Exhaust System w/ Cat

B&B JDM Look Turboback Exhaust STI w/ Cat

and probly many more 8)

Mid Pipe is better from a restriction perspective, and aparently Nate now aggrees.

SM has no CAT requirement.

What???? I was under the impression that SM had the same cat requirement as ST..Am I mistaken?

SM uses SP rules, you are thinking of STU... Sm everything associated with power train is Open, including intake and exhaust.

Well thank you very much, that makes my decision very easy.
Catless Invidia it is.

Are you sure? Last I talked with Kevin this was not the case? I wish the search worked better so I could find the post :?


edit: found it :lol: http://www.seccs.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2457

so what the real deal?

RTFRB! :twisted:
16.1.a
15.10e,g

Yes, someone please give a diffinate answer re: this subject.

here is how I have it..

STX/U-
No Boost Mods
Cat required
No I/C Hoses.

SP (ESP)
No Boost Mods
No Cat Required
Hoses okay
Intake okay

SM
Boost mod okay
No Cat required?
Hoses Okay
Intake Okay


Is that correct?

This is what Scott posted in that other thread...I don't have my rule book handy

So??? CAT REQUIRED IN SM RIGHT?

I haven't looked at all those, but I would look for a divorced waste gate or extended bell mouth with mid-pipe cat.

With a Bell mouth, it should be like the Cobb, and not join until somewhere after the first bend, and have a tab that extends into the turbo outlet manifold to seperate the flows.

On a true divorced wastegate pipe, I would prefer the merge to be after the second bend before the midpipe junction and be as clean a merge as possible. Not Vishnu! Should also have the tab into the manifold...

I really like my BPM turbo-back w/divorced pipe, and think if I had bought it new, I would have gotten one more mount for the down pipe that would have kept it from hitting the cross member like it does occasionally. I'll proably tear it off, and put a Cobb "dent" in it at some point if I can't fab the missing mount. It is on the pipe, I just don't have the part that bolts to the frame.

Scott was wrong!

NO CAT IN SM!!! It uses the SP rules which are open for exhaust.

Yes in ST, but can be in midpipe because one of them was there in the stock setup.

Rules are now on-line... http://www.scca.com/Solo/Index.asp?reference=rules

Dance's for joy!!!!! :banana:

Since yo are going to SM, I would also port the wastegate to minimize the chance of creep, and not rely on the map/flash to do it.

Or just get an entire upgraded turbo setup.

Eeeeeeeeeeeeexcellent. :D

We've got a resonated Invidia with your name on it, dude :)

Yeah, I was just going to contact you or Nate... Looks like I was looking for the wrong stuff...So yes, please reserve the resonated Invidia TBE for me, and as soon as the intake arrives, I'll be there...

Nate said he'd call as soon as the intake arrives...So I'll be waiting by the phone 8) ...

So, I guess we wont need that Cat anymore... :lol:

more like "So I want need to worry about a stock boost map" 8)

True!. My goal through this whole mess was to stay legal in ESP and SM...As of right now, I'm looking to SM, unless that stock version ECUTek makes it in time.

Sounds great to me. Now I just need the resonator so I can hear again!

By the way, no boost creep so far with only EM.

:lol: :lol:

thats what you get for being older.....
..........us young kids lost our hearing long ago with amped up audio systems :twisted: :lol:

Eh? what's that you say sonny?

Screw that, I'm getting the resonator,,,I have a stock stereo :lol:

I'm not saying EM won't do it, but if why not be safe. Also, you don't drive at sea level much. :twisted:

Well porting the waste-gate will certainly kick you out of ESP. Modifying your turbo's a big no-no.

Um, so does EM that effects the wastgate... :P

Engine management is legal, as long as you don't change the boost map. Physically removing material from the turbo is illegal.

Haha I was illegal half the season. I'm really glad I didn't beat tyson now :lol:

Anything affecting boost, including boost map or wastegate duty cycle changes are prohibited. The later is what Nate is tweeking to avoid creep I believe. I don't beleive you can avoid creep with timing and fuel only which is what you are legally limited to.

Um, isn't that what I said?

"Engine management is legal, as long as you don't change the boost map."

I never mentioned whether or not that means you'll be able to fight boost creep w/ EM. If that requires changing the boost, then you won't be able to fight boost creep with EM changes.

'Course, as we've discussed before, boost creep is a mechanical problem! If the WG duty cycle is at 100%, and the car is still building boost no amount of EM changes are going to make a difference. The stock ECU can already open the WG all the way, so how is a remap going to completely solve the issue? Perhaps some tweaking might help in some cases, but at the root of the problem is the physical design of the turbo.

So, if you plan to race in ESP, without a cat, chances are you will boost creep. Leave a cat in, or come on over to SM where you can port the wastegate, and run a better boost map.

Yep. we'll find out in about 4 months. I'm aware of the issues.

Scott, that was my point, they were talking about catless exhaust, and Nate claims to have an EM based solution to avoid creep on a catless STI, but I don't think he can do it with timing and fuel alone, thus something affecting boost has to change which is illegal in SP, and STU. So if you have to touch boost, you end up in SM, so why not port the wastegate and fix the real problem....

There is actualy a good page on the Vishnu site that lists all the changable things with the ECUTek, and any of them that have "boost", "wastegate", and probably "duty" in the name or description would technically be illegal to touch in ST*.