Front Swaybar
 

According to the rule book. In stock catatgory I can change out the front swaybar, but not the rear swaybar.

13.7 ANTI-ROLL (SWAY) BARS
A. For front anti-roll (sway) bars:
1. Substitution, addition or removal of any front anti-roll bars is
permitted.
2. Substitution, addition or removal of anti-roll bars may serve
no other purpose than that of an anti-roll bar.
3. The use of any bushing material is permitted.
4. No modification to the body, frame or other components to
accommodate anti-roll bar addition or substitution is allowed,
except for the drilling of holes for mounting bolts. Nonstandard
lateral members which connect between the brackets
for the bar are not permitted.
B. Rear anti-roll (sway) bars:
1. May not be removed, replaced, or modified in any way.


So, here is my questions.

What would be the advantage of putting on a stiffer front swaybar on my car?

Would it help correct some of my understeer problems?

Adding a front anti-sway bar on your car will make the understeer more, not less. The advantage of a front sway bar is to help flatten out the handling of the car and take out some of the oversteer a stiffer rear sway bar adds.

Bite you're tongue!

The current emprical evidence is that a *massive* front swaybar on an STI does so much to prevent the poor dynamic camber inherrant in the STI's MacStrut design that is actually *increases* front end grip, and helps the car to turn, despite the normally accepted logic that a stiffer bar creates understeer.

The AS STI guys are have great success running a huge front bar and big sticky tires. Search NASIOC and IWSTI for the details, but the bottom line is, big (like super big, like 29mm super big) front swaybars are a good thing in AS.

hum, sounds like there is a mod for AS that will make difference.

Don't forget, you can run 265 width tires on stock rims on '05+ cars... if you wanna talk about AS mods that are worthwhile... you simply can't beat more tire!

more tire equals more price. I already have another set of re070's with the nubbies still on them for $300.

go for bigger tires and sell me your extra set of RE070s !
I've seen whiteline suggested for front sway a lot on IWSTI. on guy i think suggested greator then 29. i think he said up to the 32 mm whiteline (stock is like 20 right?)

Two things:

YOUR
and
INHERENT

:p

Moving on, Brian, you would do well to consider the jumbo AS Strano bar discussed by Dean in the other thread. Given your finish last weekend in PAX and AS, it's definitely going to help your times enough to be worth the compromises for daily use.

Hah, if only I had what I originally wrote, but I got rid of cause it didn't make sense. I know a lot of people on LegacyGT are saying the same thing. It still will cause you to understeer but it'll give you crisper turn in. So, yes you can still understeer like normal, but the turn in is much better and flatter and is overall a benefit.

I was thinking that didn't make sense, so I just deleted it. :p

Whiteline has a 27 or 29mm bar, something like that, but for AS you would want the 32mm Strano bar. For other classes you probably wouldn't want to go higher than 22 to 24mm.

Finally found it. At $200 it sounds like a good deal. I read some threads on IWSTI and Nosiac about how well these bars perform on autocross. Might have to buy one next payday.

http://www.iwsti.com/reviews/showpro...&cat=18&page=1

Yeah you should get a real AS mod:

http://www.hoosiertire.com/

I didn't know it was hollow. It actually may have an effective stiffness less than Whiteline's XRD bar.

I would love to do that. I don't think it would be practical considering I live in Garnderville. Talk about a pain in my rear to have to bring an extra set of rims with hoosiers or kuhmo victoracers with me.

Financially speaking, I am not in a position where I can do that..

Once I get the new motor in my f250, I might be able to borrow a trailer to tow my car up there with race slicks on it. But, I don't see that happening any time soon.

Finances are an excuse, hauling a set of tires to the events is not. ;) You can fit 3 sets of mounted tires in your car dude.

On the STI at least, the big front bar does not "help turn in but then oversteer", it 100% reduces understeer... better turn in, better steady-state cornering, and better exit. At least that's what the AS autocross guys are finding out.

Read this thread til your head explodes. This bar is da bomb... Somewhere in there is mentioned that even the 29mm bar can't touch it...

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=719115

So, this seems like you would have to run 265's to gain the grip needed to make the bar work right? I might be going about it all wrong though.

Shouldn't be necessary. The stiff front bar should help the suspension geometry, which wil help any size tire maximize its grip.

And for what ever the combination of stiffer front bar and other bits does for you, be aware you may need to (re)learn to drive the car to take advantage of any improvements. Just an example, if you've gotten used to braking late throwing your car into the turn, then accelerating out, you may need to brake earlier, start your turn and acceleration sooner. (disclaimer: this is only a wild example, your results may vary.:) )

It makes since though, I kind of figured out I would probably need to relearn my car. But I have a lot of things I still need to learn in the first place anyway.

I think the biggest bar available from whiteline is a 27mm front sway bar (XSF36XXZ). This is straight from whiteline website, that was updated on 3/29/06, all applications from the MY05 STi remained the same for MY06 STi. I'd love a chance to give that 32mm Strano bar a shot. Where can I pick one of those up?

Read the above linked thread, or go to the Strano web site... http://www.stranoparts.com/

Does number 4 of this rule specifically mean I can't upgrade the endlinks of the FSB?

No. ^

I thought it was the lack of specific authorization that prevents you from changing endlinks in stock classes.

No, end links are part of the sway bar. Go look at the Stano bar. It uses end links like no other Subaru bar, and it is legal.

That's helpful. Replacing endlinks every 3 runs would get old. :D

fixed.

So bad news for me.......the Strano bars are sold out for the time being. There not expecting the next shipment for another 3 weeks. BOO! well, I guess I'll just have to wait.............

I thought I would revise this post.

First of all, I owe a big thanks to Cory for his time on Sat. morning. I took us 1.5 hours to get the damn thing in, but it went relatively smooth.

I haven't really put this new swaybar through the paces yet, but I can definetly tell there is a major difference in the way the car takes a turn. It was mentioned in a previous reply that I would have to re-learn my car. I would have to say that is probably correct. I suppose / hypothesise that my car would be a little more prone to spinning out if I throw it into a turn.

Again, Cory thanks a TON for putting in my new 32mm StanoBar!

NO PROBLEM DUDE!!! Was cool just to hang out anyway!

I'm sure if I ever do another, it'll go a LOT faster, seeing as I know exactly what needs to be "helped" in to place now! :lol:

Hope it lives up to it's promises!

I don't think it will cause it to be significantly more tail happy from what I have read. Now that the front will be stable, you will be able to adjust the handling with rear tire pressure.

I assume you have already dialed in some negative camber in the front with the stock bolts. You should be able to get to about 1 degree negative.

As I remember it I would typically run 38psi in the front, and 42 - 44 in the rear.



I haven't yet played with the camber. What will -1 degree of camber do for my car and its handling? Is it something I can do myself, or do I need to take it into a tire shop and have it re-aligned?


Cory, no problem. I had fun. I hope that beer serves you well!

I don't claim to be an RE070 expert, but I want to say at autocross they guys were shooting for 40-44PSI warm in the front. A pyrometer or chalk will help you dial in front presures for optimal front grip, and then you adjust the rear pressure for handling.

Most often, you take the rear higher to help free it up and allow the car to rotate or at least get it nuetral.

An alignment rack is you best bet unless you want to go crazy like Scott and I do and use laser levels, plastic bags, and "Lowes" creations to do your own alignment.

Most Imprezas are factory set to 0 to -.5 degrees of front camber. You'd like -1.5 or more for Autocross or the track, and even 1.0 would be nice for better street handling. That is about all you can get out of the stock bolts which is all you would be permitted to use in AS.

The rear typically has -1.5 from the factory.

Why do they do this? Well, we are bozo Americans and don't know how to drive, so they build understeer into the cars. the -1.5 in the rear makes it very sticky. The 0 in front makes it very un sticky, thus understeer.

Note: Negative camber will make the inside edges of your tires wear a little faster especialy if you do a lot of long highway miles with miniimal cornering. But it is the price you pay for having better handling in the corners.

A stiffer front bar should not make the car snap-oversteer. In fact, conventional wisdom states that the stiffer front bar will actually have the opposite effect, making the car more pushy. But since you improve the camber curve, in reality you get more front grip, rather than less... but still it should be more along the lines of steady state grip rather than something that would make the car snap oversteer.