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It's gotta be pre-turbo...UP maybe.
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There is no way your boost would be limited by any sort of leak post-turbo. People take off their exhausts to gain better performance at the track (on a turbo car). Like I said, it either has to be a manifold problem or wastegate problem... or just a buggy-eye problem.
Check your wastegate - it could be malfunctioning and opening early. You could also check your boost controller itself - that could be off. I've had my turbo/manifold gasket become vapor (it boke apart and nothing was left) before without having it effect my boost. |
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Also, taking off my exhaust would certainly *not* help my performance, unless melting wiring and setting the car on fire w/ 1000F exhaust gases blowing directly into the firewall/wiring harness is the new JDM way to go faster. :P My boost controller is the stock ECU. I highly doubt the electrons in the ECU are broken... especially when my issues appeared just as my exhaust leak got louder. The most likely culprit is that my header/up-pipe gasket has failed. I've had that happen before, and the result was the same loud exhaust and limited boost. Nothing that a quick trip to Litha and 10 minutes under the car won't fix. |
I'm 99% this won't help, but I do have a Cu-Seal Copper gasket for the DP to turbo joint if you need it and it would even fit your car.
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I was seeing 1900F EGTs because I had my skid plate installed and it was retaining too much heat from the headers. Getting everything that hot, then letting it cool, and repeating like 10 times over the weekend probably just loosened up the bolts in my exhaust system. |
That's hot.
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I just dont see how an exhaust leak AFTER the turbo would effect boost like its doing in your case. Why dont you slap a boost controller on there? If you take it to Lithia and they fix your leak, let me know. I'm interested if that will cure your boost problem. |
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I don't slap a boost controller on my car because I'd rather not blow up another motor. I figure the ECU and EBC already built into the car were engineered far better than a spring and ball bearing. Though, if you'd like one, I've got a TurboXS MBC sitting in a drawer in my garage. Lithia won't ever touch my car. Not just because they wouldn't have a clue what to do after popping the hood, but because I barely trust professional race car builders w/ it, let alone some yahoo techs. The only reason I'd go to Lithia is to buy a new gasket that I'd install myself, in my garage... it takes like 10 minutes. |
How much you want for the MBC?
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No shit on that one! My buddy and his friend who both work down there came here yesterday, (the yellow MR2 and the red L with the green door from auto-x) and they were looking at the Z racecar I've got sitting here. They both turned green in the face looking at that thing! Those guys are TERRIFIED by aftermarket goodies. Something as modified as your car would make them water their pants! |
Thanks for the offer, but I already have a decent electronic boost controller.
What kind of sensor does the car have to measure pressure in the exhaust system? |
Flex joints will fail.
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That does suck though Scott. The one UP install I've done (on my car) was time consuming. |
Yeah, thats what I've always heard. Maybe 2-3 years out of a flex joint sometimes.
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If I recall correctly, one half of the timing cover is hard to replace, and the other is pretty easy, but I can't remember which is which... Helps a lot huh? :lol:
Maybe having some louvers pressed into the skid plate to help direct some air in there, while still providing impact protection would help. Even if radiant heat is the problem, the cool(er) air being forced in while the car's in motion would likely still drop the temps some. (?) |
Yeah, I was thinking about the louvers too.......there's enough street rod shops that someone should be able to bust it out pretty easily, but that' snormally in thin sheetmetal, not 3/16" aluminum plate.
Plus, having the louvers facing forward would be better for cooling, but will also scoop up water and catch other stuff as well... Scott, you need a 1/2" holesaw. Speedholes FTW! |
Yeah, I thought of the catching water and crap. Kinda shoots it in the foot. I wasn't sure how thick that skid plate was either, and that's def. an issue! I dunno, just throwing ideas out there!
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I was thinking about some brake-duct like ducts sending air over the headers... but I think I'm probably just going to run w/o the skid plate. It's heavy and hot... and there's not that much debris on the track, unless I go off. :lol:
If anyone wants a nice Primitive skid plate, let me know! It's only been used for about 20 track miles. :lol: As far as the timing cover. The outter cover is a breeze to install. The inner cover requires taking off the timing belt and cam gears. :( I was just at Lithia ordering the parts. I'm gonna try to do the repair myself, since I can't get down to Gruppe-S easily and since they can't get me in until the end of next week, which will cut it too close to the autocross. The parts aren't expensive, unless of course I botch the timing belt install... in which case it will be extremely expensive. :lol: Hey Cory, you got time to lend me some expertice? :) |
When are you doing it dude? I can probably swing by and give a hand! Give me a call if you need!
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Lemme know! I can bring any "oddball" tools you might need, and not have as well!
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That should NOT effect your boost... that is so minor. And map sensors dont measure the exhaust pressure - they measure the intake manifold pressure. Every fuel injection car has one. I doubt you have anything measuring your exhaust pressure. If you think its your MAP sensor messing up, you have a boost leak. Time for a boost leak test! |
First off, if you had heard Scott's car, you would not be arguing whether or not that leak was costing him boost. Second, he didn't say that the car is directly measuring exhaust gas pressure, he said that the car uses MAF and MAP to determine engine load, with which backpressure varies more or less linearly. Lastly, his MAP sensor is perfectly okay, and he has no boost leaks, because if either was the case the car would be running extremely rich and acting all kinds of weird. Please, please stop trying to diagnose Subaru engine maladies over the internet.
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With complete disregard of Kevin's request not to diagnose engine problems over teh Interweb, That is a shot muffler bearing if I ever saw one! I bet he ran low on exhaust fluid, and the sucker just blew out due to lack of lubrication... Shit like that can get you in trouble, or worse, her pregnant. :D |
Damn...just goes to show you that muffler bearings do run out of fluid....just like the blinkers! Running out of blinker fluid could permanently throw the earths orbit out of whack.
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As far as the "exhaust pressure"... who measures exhaust pressure? Wastegates use the manifold pressure as the feedback loop parameter. When the turbo is making too much manifold boost, the wastegate opens reducing the force on the impeller, which lowers the boost. With a MBC, the manifold pressure simply reaches a point where it can bypass the ball/spring in the MBC, which allows the pressure to vent to the wastegate control valve which opens the wastegate. An EBC just adds a computer that monitors the manifold pressure and opens a valve to operate the wastegate depending on the boost. At no point is exhaust pressure measured. The only exception might be on a cheap external wastegate that has a simple valve that opens at a pre-determined pressure level like a BOV. But even in that case, there's no sensor monitoring the exhaust pressure. |
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And be sure to let me know when you fix it. I am curious to see if it'll correct your boost problem. |
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I've got a new up-pipe on order, I should get it around Monday or Tuesday... same time I should get the new timing covers. I went with the Bosal up-pipe. It's a flex pipe, but it's also got head shields on it like the stock unit. That should help a little with the underhood temps... but probably just a little. |
Are heat shields as/more effective than a good ceramic coating?
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To be honest, I'm a bit nervous buying an aftermarket exhaust pipe w/ a heat shield, but I don't have the time to get something jet coated, so I'm giving it a whirl. |
Crucial UP's are ceramic coated and usually in stock.
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IIRC, the Crucial pipe is non-flex, and coated inside and out. Not having heard any real information about the quality of the pipe, plus the fact that I'm attempting to use it to mate an aftermarket turbo and headers, I'd rather not take the risk of a rigid pipe that will probably leak at the gaskets and may end up flaking ceramic coating through my turbo in a year. Plus it costs like $50 more than the pipe I ordered. |
Correct, it is non-flex and coated inside and out. Litterally hundreds of people are running them on their cars at wrxfanatics and the only leaks I've ever heard of are from people neglecting to retorque after a heat cycle. Now that the Cu-Seal copper gaskets (also available from Crucial) are anieled (sp?) retorquing is less necessary, but still cheap insurance.
I run it and fitment was perfect. It also comes with Worth studs which are supposedly indestructible but one of them needs to be flipped or it will sometimes keep the DP from going all the way back on. Anyway, I guess it's a moot point. |
I think the fitment concern isn't with the uppipe, but with the aftermarket headers and the uppipe. Yeah, both are supposed to fit just fine at stock points but you never know how close it'll really be with two aftermarket pieces.
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True, true.
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Having had a solid pipe in the past, and had a ton of leak issues (to the point where I went through like 9 different gaskets and eventually had Vishnu replace my pipe w/ a flex version), I'm going to just stay w/ a flex unit. Edit: Yeah, what Nick said. |
That's too bad Scott, because if what Nick hears is true, you'll be replacing that thing every few years. I guess that's not terrible for a track car though.
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It really depends on vibration and movement. I think in that sense, daily drivers have it worse for flex pipes because they make the same repetitive motions over and over again, where as the track sees more extreme movement, but not in a repetitive way (and not every day either).
On one hand, Scott'll maybe have to replace the flex every few years, where as he could go through a number of non-flex pipes before he even finds one that works. I'd go with the flex in Scott's case as well, if it were my choice. |
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Okay, I split this out of the RFR Trials event thread to bump an update.
On Monday, Cory and I attacked the car w/ the intent of swapping the timing covers. We got about halfway done, but were foiled because the sever underbonnet heat rendered the right-side exhaust cam gear bolt fused. We were actually slipping the timing trying to torque it off! :eek: According to Cory's tech friend at Subaru, that's not all that unusual, and the normal solution is to simply shatter the timing gear and replace it. :roll: So, we stopped for the night, Tuesday morning I put in an order for a new gear and bolt at Lithia. Wednesday came, and good ol' Don at Lithia called me... my parts were in a day early! :) So after work, Cory, Matt and I were back at it. This time we used Cory's 2 foot long chain wrench to hold the gear, and put a big ass breaker bar on the bolt and got it loose... of course the chain wrench ruined the gear, but at least we didn't have to take an air hammer to it. Things looked good to go. We swapped the rear timing cover, and started reinstalling all the gears. That's when we noticed, one of the idler pulley bolts was stripped out in the block. :mad: Like *way* stripped out. Stupid grade 8 bolts into an aluminum block. Looks like someone either cross threaded it, or simply over torqued it. I don't believe Gruppe-S would have ever had that pulley off, so I have to think it was screwed up by S-Squared when they originally assembled the motor. :roll: And instead of fixing it, all they did was goup a bunch of thread locker on it. :mad: So, we started looking into tapping the hole for a larger bolt. We got the tap, the replacement bolt... but as if turns out, we needed to drill the hole larger, which is something we just wouldn't be able to do w/o pulling the radiator and A/C condenser, which would require an r134 collection setup. So, instead we retapped for the factory size bolt to clean up the few threads that were left, then got a longer bolt and reinstalled the pulley into the virgin threads deep in the hole. It seemed to snug up pretty well, so I think we'll be okay. By now Matt had left, so it was up to Cory and I to descipher the marks we put on the timing belt. It was actually more of a PITA that I expected, but in the end the belt was on with the crank and all cams properly aligned. Cory had to bounce, so I finished up installing the belt guides and outter timing covers, then the I/C pipe we had to remove, the radiator fans, and the coolant lines. And when I was done I only had one spare bolt left over! (Seriously, I had one of the center timing cover bolts left over, but I had a bolt installed in every location that was listed in the service manual... how does that happen!?) I crossed my fingers and started up the motor, and aside from the massive up-pipe leak I've still got, the motor seemed to run correctly. :) So, if SubyDude/Bosal ever get their act together and get my my up-pipe today or tomorrow (should have been here on *Tuesday*), I'll make it to this weekend's autocross. |
Sheesh, that's a lot of surprises for one week.
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Glad to hear it's all back together. JC |
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No fun dude, I have done timing belts on our cars, Lame. Hope everything is back in black for this weekend.
*crosses fingers for Scott* |
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