Possible Wagon conversion?
 

My friend has a paid for 2002 impreza Ts wagon A/T. We were thinking about doing an engine/tranny conversion and then wheels and suspension. Before we get all excited and start looking for parts.
Is it possible and is it worth the cost? I know there is a huge conversion forum on nasioc but before I devote the next 2 years of my life to reading it I just wanted to ask some of you (scott) who have done such things.

From my understanding it is all possible. I have heard that the AT to 5mt or 6mt is not cakewalk. Everything is possible when the price is right though... ;)

Yeah, it's certainly possible, but depending on what you plan on putting it, it would probably make more sense to just buy a used WRX Wagon.

It would be *far* cheaper to buy an STi, than to do a swap. However, since there's no such thing as an STi wagon, starting w/ a TS would be the right way to do it. If it were a 5MT, the swap would go easier and a bit cheaper, but since you're looking at probably $15k for the swap as it is, what's a couple hundred more, right?

The best part is that the car would still be insured as a TS wagon, so hello low rates! Just don't crash it, 'cause you'd only get paid out for an '02 TS wagon.

You could buy a complete swap donor car for significantly less than $15k. 2004-6 WRXs go for $4-6k all the time at auction with salvage titles. 06s are not particularly more expensive than EJ205 model years, just a little more expensive because they are newer and usually lower mileage.

anything is possible with the mula.

STi wagon ftw.

Swapping in a WRX motor would be retarded. 2.5L, AVCS, 6MT or don't waste your money.

Buy an Sti and weld the wagon rear end on it. :p

This actually isn't that bad of an idea... You get all the wide body and other good things from an STI and a wagon.

You really need someone who knows how to do this sort of chassis stuff, and still a boat load of work though.

the idea has officially been flushed. thanks for all the input.

For a dedicated track car, I agree. But it's perfectly valid to swap a WRX drivetrain into a car for other purposes.

There is ZERO reason to swap a WRX drivetrain into a TS. Just go buy a damn WRX wagon and save yourself tens of thousands of dollars.

Agreed.

A quote I read somewhere: "Anything is possible if the check clears"

There are plenty of justifications for swapping any car. Just because you spent tens of thousands of wasted dollars on yours doesn't mean everyone else's project is a financial disaster waiting to happen.

Swapping my car or your car makes sense, but I really can't see even ONE reason to swap a car that you can go and buy in a factory turbo homologation...

IIRC I've seen sti swaps, 6speed included are in the sub 10k range now. However it would be cool to have an sti wagon, just not that cool. Like everyone else said, just trade it in for a wrx wagon.

The big reason is because you have one, and you like it. Or maybe you did like Scott and spent about a hundred hours or more doing little custom mods to it that can't really be parted out or moved to a new chassis, and that make your investment in a car more than just financial. In short, if you have a Subaru you really really like, and it's not a WRX or STi, I think it's justified to swap it if you don't mind spending the money. Especially if it will be a DIY swap like this thread was about.

well said..

But ultimately... It's to each their own.

Put away the crack pipe.

It's way cheaper, less work, and you get a much better build to sell the TS and buy a WRX wagon.

Sell used TS: +$9,000
Buy 5MT WRX Wagon: -$11,000 (financeable!)

or Swap WRX motor and 5MT into TS: $5,000 (on a good day, without any expensive roadblocks)

Why waste $3000 to end up with a car with zero resale value that's a frankensuby version of a WRX wagon. Again, the *only* reason to go for that swap is if you're going STi.

And even then, I regret spending all the money and time on my car with the STi swap. Sure it's fast as hell now, but it would have been that fast for a whole lot cheaper, and a whole lot more reliable if I had sold it and bought an STi and built that up.

How is deciding to buy a car with ridiculously more power than it actually takes to drive from one place to another in any way financially justified? Anything beyond an off-lease/used 2.5i is a waste of money, it's just a matter of degree.

...we'll let the seaguls at the dump figure it out.

The amount of power has nothing to do with it. The point is, for the same end-result (a WRX wagon) you can either spend $5000+ to get a home-made one, or you can spend $2000 to get a factory one.

Or best yet, for $5000 you can get a factory one, and mod it to be $3000 faster than the home-made one.

:lol: good one

Any of those options is a waste of money when you get down to it. So now you're in the realm of totally subjective value for the return on the investment. If someone says that spending $5000 to swap his car, whatever it may be, is worth it to him, how can you argue by saying that he could have saved money by doing something completely different? Yes, swapping is almost inevitably going to cost more than trading his car in. But, trading his car in to get an STi or even WRX doesn't make financial sense either.

Are you listening to yourself?

Let's make this simple.

The goal: start with a TS 4EAT, end up with a 5MT WRX wagon.

The options:
- spend $5000+ to get a frankensuby WRX wagon
- spend $2000 to get a real WRX wagon

There's not a lot of room for subjective analysis there. Either spend $3000 too much for a lower quality product, or not. If it's "worth it to him" then he's dumb... I know from experience... it's not worth it. Like I said, go STi on the swap or don't do it... and even then, homey better have a huge wagon mafia hard-on for STi wagons in order for the swap to be "worth it to him" because 99% of people would be satisfied going with an STi sedan or something like a used S4 Avant, as both would be about the same price as doing a TS -> STi Wagon swap properly.

Either way, trading in the car makes excellent financial sense, it's the cheaper way to meet the goal. If you want to argue the merits of the goal itself, that's something completely different.

Just because someone gets great personal satisfaction out of doing something that's retarded, and thinks it's really worth all the money, time & effort, doesn't make it any less retarded.

That's the only thing I've been arguing. Since trading for a WRX makes no financial sense either, how is one waste of money stupider than another?

Because wasting $5,000 is less stupid than wasting $10,000 ($5,00 less stupid to be exact).

But you don't end up with the same thing.

I guess, but they are close enough. Would you rather have a one of a kind TS wagon with a WRX swap, or a WRX wagon and $5,000?

I'd have to go with the factory WRX wagon and an extra $5k. Being unique isn't worth $5k, especially with the GD/GG chassis.

Which is why only swapping in an STi drivetrain really makes sense. Anything else is just more of a waste of money then just purchasing the equivalent car.

That's not what we were discussing. I said a TS would be a good platform for an STi swap because it'd yield a unique car, but that it'd be expensive. You said that swapping a WRX drivetrain would be a lot cheaper. Then we argued about whether or not a WRX swap into a TS is worth the money, not about swaps in general.

Would you swap a 4.6L V8 into a 6 cyl Mustang? No, just buy a GT. Would you swap an EVO motor into a base Lancer? No, just buy an EVO. Likewise, don't swap a WRX motor into a TS. If you can buy it from the factory, don't do the swap! It's a huge waste of money.

And if there's anyone that can speak to that point, it's me. My "bugeye STi" is no where near unique enough to make up for the unnecessary $30,000 I've spent on it. I could have just purchased a Porsche Turbo at this point... it would be as fast, but would still have a damn warranty and not need rebuilding once a year.

No you end up with a home-made car with no resale value, all sorts of little quirks and rattles that come from the 5MT conversion, and less money in your pocket.

I do believe a 5.0 v8 swap into a Fox body 4cyl. car is actually a rather easy project. I.E. CHEAP, say $1k give or take.

Same motor mounts, you would need a different rear-end. 4cyl car came with a 7.5" Rear, and V8's came with an 8.8". The 7.5 will survive with a V8, if you aren't abusing it. You might need to upgrade the tranny and driveline. Not sure though.

Now a 4.6 liter into a 4.0 V6 car is a total waste of time and money, might as well turbo / supercharge the V6 instead of blowing tons of money on the conversion.

I have also heard of people doing the 4.6L V8 swap into Fox body mustangs. I would have to say thats probably a waste of time and money also.

Nice tangential argument Brian. Welcome to the SECCS debate club. :lol:

Thanks. I honestly had to look that word up. According to Merriam-Webster, it is defined as;

Main Entry: tan·gen·tial
Pronunciation: tan-'jen(t)-sh&l
Function: adjective
1 : of, relating to, or of the nature of a tangent
2 : acting along or lying in a tangent <tangential forces>
3 a : DIVERGENT, DIGRESSIVE b : touching lightly : INCIDENTAL, PERIPHERAL <tangential involvement>; also : of little relevance <arguments tangential to the main point>

I must digress even further. My alterior motive to my post was to point out that as technoligy becames more outdated, it also becomes cheaper. E.I. the 5.0 vs 4.6 V8 swaps.

On an afterthought, do your bosses know how much time you all spend on here argueing about stupid shit? Personally, I get two 15 minute breaks and a lunch. Thats about all the time I have to divulge myself in there intelectual conversations. Which for me, is not enough time to come up with so many stupid ways to argue opinions. Humm. Opinions are like assholes, everyone's got one and they usually stink.

Goodnight gentleman. See you all on Thursday at the Shit House that we meet up for dinner at. 4 sick stomachs in a row, FTW!!!!

Just because you spend money on something you want doesn't make it a poor financial decision. Being cheap is not the best financial plan nor life plan really.

That would be ulterior motive.

Thanks, I was tired and wanted to go to bed.

I agree. So condemning one financial decision as something totally irrational and ignorant and retarded compared another financial decision is silly to me. Noting that it is more dumb is another matter.

If that were true, then firing someone because of their race is exactly the same thing as killing every member of that race in the country. They're both "totally irrational and ignorant and retarded" actions, and since scale has no bearing on the argument according to you, that makes unlawful termination and genocide "the same thing".

Obviously that's not the case. So, while acknowledging that upgrading from a TS to a WRX wagon may be "frivolous", certainly doing it for $2000 to get a factory car is less frivolous than spending $5000 to get a hacked together car.

That's not really what I meant. Rewarding yourself for working really hard by splurging a little to buy a WRX is the kind of excess that makes life fun and makes you stay focused on your goals. Blowing a ton of cash on a TS because you wished you had bought a WRX is foolish. There is a difference between spending a little more for something you really want and dumping cash in poorly thought out decisions. Like I bought myself the EVO because I had busted my ass in college for 6 years. It's still a reliable car, seats 5, and is safe(ish). So it's meets the basic criteria that I need for a car but with a little extra something for my hard work. Yes it's expensive for a person who just graduated but it's an excess that is OK. I could have gone and bought a Cayman or even a 911 Carrera. I still could have swung the payments but it would be a poor financial and logical decision. Financial life is about moderation, not excess in either spending direction.

Yes, this is true. But spending somewhat more money to swap the car you own is not so totally foolish it should be ridiculed by those who would not do it, or wish they hadn't. Deciding that you want to take a car you like and make it faster is not equivalent, in my opinion, to simply wishing you had a faster car. "I want a 12 second car" is not the same goal as "I want to take on the project of swapping a totally different drivetrain into my car to make it faster" or "I want to do a swap because I will get satisfaction out of doing the work." My argument is not that it doesn't matter how much you spend to achieve a certain set of criteria with your car, but that diferent sets of criteria can justify different levels of spending.

Just in case you missed post number 10 Kevin, he said his friend isn't going to do it. And I don't think anyone was being ridiculed (not until much later anyway :p). They asked for advice, got the advice, and took the advice. And then left the thread for everyone to argue semantics on whats more less-bad or not so good versus stuff.

But yes, I agree, you can justify the cost of anything if you try hard enough. But that also doesn't mean I can't say its stupid if I think it is.

Having done a swap in a car that I could have just purchased from the factory, I can without a doubt tell you that it is foolish.

It's one thing to do a swap to get something you can't get otherwise, and another if the swap is the cheaper method of getting to your goal, but to spend more money on an inferior product is pretty much the definition of foolish. It's something that cost me tens of thousands of dollars to learn... and is still costing me money well after I learned my lesson.

energizer bunny and this thread :lol:

seccs-y quote of the year :lol:

no

:lol: I'm going to start arguing like this more often.

I know you are but what am I. :lol:

This is how life works. You buy some object in your life and are totally happy with it and it acomplishes its purpose. Lets call that object [A]. Later in life when you have a different outlook you might say "hey all my friends have object [B] and I would like one too." I could buy object [B] or I could put some money into object [A] and make it object [B]. $+A=B. Then your faced with several questions...
Does the end result justify the time and effort put into the project?
How can I get [B] while spending the least amount of money?
If im going to spend the money to change [A] into [B], does it cost that much more to turn [A] into [C]?

Facts.
Turning [A] into [C] would be awesome but we dont want to spend the money to do so.
Turning [A] into [B] would cost way more then selling [A] and buying [B].
[A] has no sentimental value so there is no reason to spend the extra money trying to save it.

A+$$$$=B
-A=$$
$$+$=B
A+$$$$$=C.
Then the last 2 questions are...

Do you want to pay the $$$$$ to make an awesome sti bugeye wagon?
Are you ok with just buying a wrx wagon?

The answer is...

Dustin:" im just gonna buy another evo"

I'm like rubber you're like glue whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you.