Another Tire Thread
 

The tires on my Rotas have bald inner shoulders due to a bad alignment I had years ago so I guess I should probably replace them. I run even more neg. camber now, but no toe so all my tires wear even. So I've got snows on my stock wheels and RE01R's with 40% left on my Enkei's but I like to run my Rotas in the summer between AutoX's.

I figure some good all seasons should be a safe bet in case I ever get caught in inclement weather but I'm also open to summer tires as long as they're a good value.

Here are two options I'm considering. If I get the Dunlops, I'd get the $75 Amazon card, I think and Alex said Mr. Hubcap will mount tires for $50 if I mention Alex, the Rally Driver. :lol:

I had those last year, good street tire/bad autox tire.
Nick had them too. Check ebay, I got mine for <300 shipped from discount tire on there.

The 512's? Hmm, I'll have to check ebay.

Yeah, I should of mentioned which tires I was referring too.
These were 16" too so a little cheaper than 17" tires

I'm planning on a set of 512's for 3-season tires on my GF's Saab. If they're anything like the ST-115's (the model they apparently replaced) that I've had on my SVX for the last 3 years or so, they're great, quiet street tires.

Based on your other tires, I would skip the all seasons and go cheap 3 season performance... Fuzion ZRi

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....nSpeedRating=V

They are just a tad better in the TR tests than the SPTs I have which are pretty darn good.

And you should be able to get them mounted for less than $50. Walmart I know is less than that.

512's, IMO, are junk, compared to the 912's that replaced them - I've run both.
America's Tire asked Falken to keep making the 512 as a budget tire, it's old technology.

912's wear better, are quieter, and have more grip.

Mr Hubcap actually told me $10 a tire (mount and balance) if you bring them in (IE no install on your car) I think they would do it either way but that's what he told me. Anyone the reno SCCA / or Seccs, or anyone who just says they know me :)

Ask for Devin.



Go with the BF Goodrich Traction T/A's H or V. i have the H on my rally car. and OMFG those tires rock. at my last rallyX i had to use my streets, as i was planning on using 2 rally tires i bought at the event. (one of them was not mounted) leaving my options 2 or 3 rally tires, or 4 streets. i went on 4 streets. I got 4th over all Beating out numerous WRXs and STIs on Mud and Snow rated tires. i even beat out my big R2 competitor , who was on Rally tires.

they also have good dry and wet street traction. and amazing dirt traction, good snow traction too. i'm thinking of getting some for my STI when i wear out my goodyear GTs (not so good in the dirt) :)

No gift card though. :(

I always use Costco to mount and balance all my tires. Somebody said that they won't except outside tires but I've been lucky.

How do you think those would compare to the Sumitomo HTRZ3 that Khail was recommending in the wing thread?

Since I do long trips, I wouldn't mind a more comfortable tire but it's hard to say I'd choose comfort over grip and price is really important too. I'm definitely going to be checking ebay.

I learned from Ludacris that only the run-flat Sumitomo's are worth buying.

No way to know for sure since TR tests are on different months/days so you can't directly compare numbers and I have no personal experience with either. What you can see by looking at the test is that they are both pretty damn good. I like the wet performance on the Fuzions (slalom and braking). In our thunderstorm and variable weather area, I might weight that factor a decider if prices are comparable. Fuzon actually looks to be $5/tire cheaper and might last longer UTOG 320 vs. 300... Either is probably a good choice for a cheap 3 season tire.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...ay.jsp?ttid=97
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...ay.jsp?ttid=93

Interesting looking at the tests. I wonder if the Fuzions would be more comfortable for road trips? My only remaining apprehension is that these wouldn't last as long and be as comfortable as some good A/S's.

FWIW, the tires I was running all winter were Goodyear Eagle F1 A/S, in the same 225/45 size. The HTRZ3 is much quieter and smoother riding than the all season Goodyear. To me it's the most comfortable tire I've used along with the Falken ST115.

As far as comparing the Sumitomo and the Fuzion, remember that the Sumi is in the Max Performance Summer category and the Fuzion is in the Ultra High Performance group. So you can't really compare test results fairly against each other. One advantage I prefer to the HTRZ3 is that you can rotate them side to side and front to back. The Fuzion ZRi is directional so you can't do side to side. I think either tire will have more than enough grip for the street, so that's not an issue for me.

Thanks Khail.

These would only be $78/tire after factoring the $50 visa gift card.

The scored really high in comfort and treadware too. Actually they scored high in everything and they're even M+S rated. Thoughts?

I've always wondered about those, there are so many good reviews on Tire Rack. I'm tempted to try a set on my wife's Mazda 3 when she needs tires.

I'm tempted to throw a set of GT-UHP's in 225/45/17 on my GF's Saab, but for just $20 more, I can get a set of Falken 912's from Discount Tire Direct. I'm having a real hard time going with General Tire when I've had such a great experience with three different Falken's over the years (215's, 615's, and 115's).

Falken's have never disappointed me in bang-for-the-buck. I just wish Tire Rack friggen sold them. :mad:

Me and your GF can share a set? I'll use them in the Summer and she can use them in the Winter. :P

The best deal I have seen on tires is for the tires that I have on my car right now. The Kuhmo Ecsta AST. Although the tires aren't exactly good for anything other than a DD, the price cant be beaten. $54 each. Making the total $231.93 (.225/40/18.)

Nice, I'm thinking that something like that is more in my price range.

Also, how bad is it to wait until tires "cord" before replacing them? The contact patch still hasn't met the wear bars, but the inside shoulder is nearly bald. Just looking for opinions...won't hold anyone acountable obviously.

For the Kuhmos? I have had some good luck with them, and I don't drive with much respect to keep my tires for long, and my alignment has never been perfect, so without adding in all the factors that can be avoided, I would give them a 6.5/10 for wear rating.
For performance I would give them a 6/10, since I shouldn't expect to get anything other than DD out of them. But, for price.. 11/10, haha. Cody, send me a PM if you want me to see what I can do about getting you a set.

-Chris

It is coming up on summer. Move the worn ones to the corner that wears that edge the least and run them 'til they cord or fall arrives. If still above the wear bars, may make it until you put the snows back on.

Check them at least weekly if not every time you get in the car.

Carry a FS spare!

Yah, I'm thinking they'll last the summer. Actually when I drove over the pass Friday night, it was snowing over the summit and they stuck just fine to the wet road. I've started carrying a full size spare when leaving town with these tires. I need to check if the stock size snows or 225/45/17 RT615's are closer in OD to the 215/45/17 AVS ES100's that are on there. I'll probably just use string for this.

They're directional so I can't swap sides but the passenger side tires are more worn, probably from my first day at RFR and of course I've got the best from each side on the front.

Directional mostly applies to wet driving and water expulsion.

At that level, I'd run them backwards in the summer if that makes sense from a wear perspective. Both worst wear shoulder in the rear probably.

I have even run Asymetricals inside out after they were worn down.

Well, one of them basically corded. It looks like I wore through a layer of rubber and exposed a new layer beneath and the tire is like a 20 sided polygon instead of round. I'd say I've got my money's worth out of the anyway.

For replacements I'm thinking of getting Fuzion HRi in 225/45/17 ($78.00 each) or maybe these Hankook Ventus S1 Evo in the same size. They're on closeout for $77. Thoughts?

Get the Hankook tires. I had those on my car in NeedForSpeed.

I had the Fuzion HRIs on the evo. Good all seasons, junk for anything else though.

Ok so I decided to man up and get Summer tires so I was thinking I'd pull the trigger on the Hankooks, but aren't General Exclaim UHP better? After the $50 rebate, they're only a dollar more each.

Definitely going with the Generals after reading a bunch of the reviews. Ultra High Performance tires that you can use in the snow and they're quiet and comfortable while having a 380 tread ware rating and they're only $78 each after MIR? :huh: Um, ok.

I would not touch the Hankook Evos. I would not trust a tire that is already on closeout and has not been around long enough to get tested, or have more than 1 user review on a completely different size/car.

Man up and get the Fuzion ZRi

Never trust user reviews...

The Generals got their ass kicked by the Kumho SPTs back in the 2005 test, and the ZRi equaled or bettered the SPT in most every meaningful test in 2007

I have the SPTs as the street tires for my STI and they rock, but don't trust my review. ;)

I would but they're more expensive and I really like that the Generals can handle snow if necessary. I loved my Toyo Proxes 4's for that reason. They were great tires.

Nothing in the manufacturers data says snow and again, I would not trust a user claiming they do as far as I could throw them. They significantly under perform in the wet which you are much more likely to be driving in, and based on that, I would doubt they do very well in slush or full snow vs. any of the other summer tires.

Expecting any "summer" tire to handle snow is silly. Go to all seasons with some siping if you want snow performance like the HRi, but I wouldn't bother, A/S just suck at everything a little, they really aren't great at anything.

Yeah, the cheaper the tire, the less likely the reviewer knows anything about his tires other than black, round, and hold the car up.

I have a General some sort of tire, from Walmart. 195/65/14 . full size spare for the rally car. I've had to put it on a few times when i've popped /debeaded a tire romping around. all i know is it didn't blow up on me :) the tire i have from them are rated as M/S are you just looking for tires to DD on ? and you have dedicated winters?

Yah, check the first post Alex. :)

Well, here's my criteria in order of importance.

1. I want them to be a great value, meaining they'll last a long time AND be inexpensive.
2. I want a tire that won't kill me on the way home if I get surprised by a touch of snow or black ice that the weather report didn't call in time for me to switch to my Winters or I decide to push my luck when I probably should have switched to Winters.
3. I want them to be quiet and comfortable for road trips.
4. I want excellent grip in the dry and wet. I'm willing to sacrifice some resonse for a more comfortable ride so softer sidewalls are okay.
5. If they can stand up to an autocross because there's only one left in the season and my current autocross tires are corded, great.

Still think I should get something other than the General's Dean? Other input?

I am almost out of advice...

What is great value? Only you can decide... As someone who owns snow tires and autocross tires, you know what a good tire feels like. A tire you hate that lasts forever is not a value/deal IMHO.

What value does a tire that underperforms in our most common conditions, dry and wet.

Unless it has a Snowflake/mountain symbol http://tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:...wflake-158.jpg which equals much siping, it is going to suck on ice, period, black or otherwise. A touch of snow/slush = SLOW DOWN and have decent tread above the wear bars, the more, the better. Real snow = snow/ice tires.

I have A/S ASXs on the Audi and while they are better than the RE92s, they aren't good at anything. The Neros were a bit better at everything, but also cost 3 arms, two legs and a left nut. A/S tires are what you buy only if you do not have dedicated snows knowing they will be OK at best the first winter and suck every winter thereafter.

If you want cheap, there are way cheaper tires out there. Cooper, Mastercraft and others come to mind, but they are H or lower speed rated. If you want cheap, call around. TR and DT don't sell that crap.

What is $10/tire over 5-10,000 miles? Señor Cheap Bastard is all about bang for your buck, not cheap for cheap's sake.

P.S. What are your old tires, I need a full size spare or two for the Audi if one or two is decent. :) 225/45/17s?

My old AVS ES100's (which were my least favorite tire ever btw) are 215/45/17. Subydude talked me out of 225/45/17 saying they'd rub. Which is ironic considering he tried to sell me 17X9 wheels recently. :huh: Let me know if you want me to save you any of them.

I can see that you're a little bit black and white about things and that's fine. But the M+S rating on the Generals has to be good for something even if the reviews claiming they work decent in snow aren't. If you think they're a poor fit given my criteria above your last post, please let me know what you think is a better fit and why.

Also, it sounds like I haven't made it clear that I want a tire that lasts and is a good fit. I'm looking for a good investment over the long haul.

M+S has nothing to do with actual cold performance, it is a set of DOT design criteria that has no real world correlation to actual performance. That is why the mountain/snowflake thing was created by the industry to identify tires that actually work in snow/ice.

For a tire allegedly designed for the wet, they suck at it relatively speaking according to the test results. They are better in the wet than your ES100s, but got dominated by them in the dry and the SPTs which are the common reference tire for the ZRi crushed them across the board.

You drive in the dry 90+% of the time and they are substantially worse than your ES100s. That should be your answer right there!

Again, I have no first hand experience with anything but the SPTs. I am only looking at data and making relative comparisons. YMMV, NWEOI.

Want to put my SPTs on your car for a couple days? The data says they are fairly similar to the ZRi.

No thanks, looking for a 225/45/17 spare or two.

Huh, I guess I always gave M+S more credit since that's what Caltrans looks for when you have AWD and "snow tires" and drive through a chain check.

I'll have to put more research into this. It's just hard to ignore that the General's excel in exactly what I care about and are 5th out of 39 with a 97% score in the Tire Survey Results for Ultra High Performance Tires, (while the ZRi's are 17th with 90%) even though you guys are saying reveiws carry no weight compared to Tirerack tests.

Remember, most of the owner/reviewers have no foundation for their reviews.

Other than autocrossers, name another driver that actually drives two tires back to back.

Even when they compare what they took off to what they put on, they are often comparing an under inflated heat cycled, uneven wear tired tire to what they just spent a small fortune on. You also seldom know what they had before. Imagine a driver going from RE070s to ES100s vs someone going from RE92s to ES100s.

You will be hard pressed to find any tire running below 80%. How can that possibly be true. Nobody wants to say I got F'ed and TR doesn't sell the real crap, but since they only drive one tire in a performance category, their numbers don't relate to each other.

There is occasionally interesting anecdotal evidence, but you have to look at the car, driving style, tire size, etc. to remotely value any of those and even then assume it is largely BS.

TR has professional drivers that do real tests in a controlled and repeatable environment. Lacking other data, I trust them 1000% more than the user reviews.

I like CR data as well, but they stick mostly to A/S for the 1 wheel set drivers and ice tests.

RE-960AS? I love mine. They are quite a bit more than your other choices, but mine are going on 40,000mi and still did fine in the snow this winter. They have great dry traction too.

I've run, at last count, more than 15 different tire models.

On the wagon.
On the same basic suspension setup.
In summer, winter, rain, snow, ice, etc.
Swapping back to back, not when tires are worn out.
I've also run 5 different tire setups on the STi.
I've put over 230,000 miles on the two Subarus.

I'll go with Dean on not trusting user reviews on Tirerack or anywhere else.
But for god's sake, trust the locals who have run the stuff, on your car :lol:

That's why I started this thread. Unfortunately I haven't gotten much in the way of first hand experience based recommendations for tires that I would consider a good fit. Any other good resources for tire reviews/tests? I'd like to look closer at the UHP's and the ZRi'ss and tires like them.

I've been told that you can't trust wear ratings between manufacturers. So the 380 on the UHP's and the 320 on the ZRi's doesn't tell me anything?

What everybody is telling you is that what you want (a super cheap tire that doesn't suck at anything) doesn't really exist. Since you only own the one car and you need it to do some pretty different duties, you can't really depend on a compromise tire. Your choices are basically 2 sets (snows plus dedicated autocross tires that compromise in the cold/wet/slush, or snows + dedicated summer street tires that compromise at autocross and cold/slush) or 3 sets (snows, 3 season that aren't fun in cold, on slush or ice, autocross). The closest there is to a compromise is to use snows for one winter and then two summers, plus your autocross tires. Snow tires aren't much more than all seasons and if you have a good alignment they last plenty long.

To me, it comes down to the fact that a decent but not spectacular snow/ice tire (including all-seasons that shade towards winter traction) makes a better warm weather tire than the reverse. You'll never sweat over snow tires in August, but you don't want to catch that first ice storm on 3 seasons.

And yes, tread ratings don't compare between manufacturers as there is no testing standard. But generally speaking, a 400 rating on one model will last twice as long as a 200 of a different model from the same brand given basic highway driving conditions.

You say you want a summer tire, then say you want all-season - pick one.

I keep saying, the 912's are a great, cheap, 3-season tire. They're rated M&S, if you care. They're quiet, they last, they grip decently, and they're <100 per tire. You keep on searching for other tires, but need to decide on a use, then fit the tire to it. Decide how many wheels and tires you're comfortable running. Shit, I have 3 sets for each car at any given point, and I don't even autoX or live in the snow. I've got a good, snow-oriented all-season, a good 3-season, and a summer tire, or a set of full snows, or, god knows what else. My wall of mounted tires has a set of 912's, a set of Dunlop summer UHP's, a set of T1r's, a set of Continental ContiSports, Nexen all-seasons, RT615s....etc. Of course, I cange wheel slike I change shoes, and half my wheels fit both cars. Cars are an investment, what's a couple hundred bucks to have the right tires for the conditions?

Kevin makes a good point. Do you need max-performance when not autoXing? Get a tire that works well in snow, and run them into the ground. Rinse and repeat. I ran Dunlop snows on the STi for a few months prior to winter, and until it was 90+ out, they were awesome. They're soft rubber, they grip well, they're just a touch loud.

The other thing about snows is that liek all tires, as they heat cycle they harden and wear slower. I was over 30,000 miles on Dunlop Wintersport M2s on my blue coupe, of which probbaly 26,000+ were from the summer I was a courier driving to Sac everyday. They were little more than half worn when that car got totalled. My current Dunlop 3Ds look practically new after 6 months. I could easily get 2 more spring/summer/fall cycles out of them, or next winter plus the following summer I think. The days of getting one winter out of snows and chucking them are long gone.

I don't want to pigeon hole myself into a tire that excels only at one thing. Sue me for wanting a well rounded tire. :idea: I change my tires all the time too. I have 3 and a half sets of rims. Blah blah blah. Maybe I'm not wording my questions correctly. If you had to suggest one tire that comes as close as possible to my criteria, what would it be? Remember, they're in order of importance.

1. I want them to be a great value, meaining they'll last a long time AND be inexpensive.
2. I want a tire that won't kill me on the way home if I get surprised by a touch of snow or black ice that the weather report didn't call in time for me to switch to my Winters or I decide to push my luck when I probably should have switched to Winters.
3. I want them to be quiet and comfortable for road trips.
4. I want excellent grip in the dry and wet. I'm willing to sacrifice some resonse for a more comfortable ride so softer sidewalls are okay.
5. If they can stand up to an autocross because there's only one left in the season and my current autocross tires are corded, great.

None of us have an answer for you or the definitive review or comparison for you.

At some point, you have to suck it up and make a choice as we have all done before when changing tires to something new.

There is no magic do everything well tire, or we would all own them.

Pick something and put them on. If you don't like them, either live with it or take them off and sell them on Craigslist and get something else.

Or since you aren't running R compounds, you really don't need a set of 3 season tires, just run your autocross tires, and when they wear out, get the next set. As many of us have shown, the best Ultra performance summer tires do great in the wet as long as they have tread depth.

And I drove through pouring rain and snow on flipped over bald and corded 215s a few years back. You can drive anything in almost any condition.

Just get the set with the coolest tread pattern. Its a sure fire way to pick performance. Like when you see the huge truck tires with dinosaur claws or flames on the sidewall.