Need recomendations on a MIG welder
 

Well, I'm thinking about finally getting a welder for the garage. Problem is, I'm not sure what to get. After doing a bunch of online reading, I'm thinking that I'm right in between something like a Hobart 140, and a Miller 180 Auto-Set. I'm pretty sure 99% of the time, a lower end 110V setup will get me by, but everyone says it's better to buy more than you need because that 1% of jobs that come up are now tackled, plus the 230V welders just plain work better, even on the smaller jobs.

So... price no object, I'd love to pick up a Millermatic 211, since it runs both 110 and 230, and has all the best features. But they're like $1000, plus the cost of gas/tank and installing a 230V breaker if I want the higher output, plus a mask, gloves, jacket, etc. Putting me easily around $1400+, when I really want to spend more like $400.

So, does anyone have a recommendation on a cheaper MIG welder? I've been scouting Craig's List to no avail so far. I think if I go used, I might as well get a lower-end 110V welder, then sell it once I know what I'm doing and what welder I really want.

The ones I've been leaning towards:

Millermatic 140 Auto-Set
Lincoln PowerMIG 140C
Hobart Handler 140

Anyone have experience with these units and/or seen them for sale on the cheap? New, they're all a bit more than I wanted to spend, so what are some equivalent older models, preferably Miller/Hobart or Lincoln brands since they seem to be the best and most easily serviceable (hell, the Lincolns are sold at Home Depot & Lowes!).

You might be able to get a deal on craigslist for a complete setup for closer to the $400 mark. There are new ones practically every day.

And if you don't like it, you can probably turn it for no loss...

Unless you need to weld long runs of 1/4"+ plate for.. whatever reason, you don't need a 230v box. Those are industrial units and you just don't need them for around-the-house or small racecar fab jobs.

I picked up a house brand 135A MIG from Northern a couple of years ago, and it's worked fine for everything I've needed to do since. Sheet metal repair, exhaust, random shit I've fabbed for the house, some stuff for work. I've done 3/16" bar/plate with plenty of penetration and I didn't have to crank the output all the way up.

For your first box in particular, I would not lay out the big cash. Train & get comfortable using a smaller/cheaper 110v, cause it'll probably be all you need anyway.

My dad has a hobart 110 and it runs like a champ. I have welded with both miller and Lincoln welders and I like them all pretty equally. IIRC the only problem with buying a used Lincoln is that they stop making parts for the welder after 7 years, which would only be a problem with buying an older Lincoln. Last time I looked on Craigslist there were 3 Hobart welders with carts and some with gas hookup for around $400-500. That is what I would do. Gas hookup is not needed but your welds will look nicer vs. flux core.

Gas hookup is a must unless you're ok with the welds looking like a flock of birds shit all over the workpiece. Flux welds are really ugly.

They are not that bad.

Mine is, I spend more time cleaning up than I do welding.

I can't say that mine are all that great, especially when my dad runs a bead and then smacks it once and the entire piece of slag flakes off to reveal a perfect weld. I wish I would have never stopped welding, one of the few machines that you can buy and have it pay for itself in such a short time.

Some pretty good advise here, Scott. I can get you in touch with a couple pros if you want to ask them, but those guys are used to using $8k+ machines.

No doubt. I pay $80/hour for all the welding I get done. But they are ASME qualified guys (Hood Machine) who do TIG work like below and they turn it around for me in a day or two.

Win!

http://reno.craigslist.org/tls/1351015574.html

BTW: anyone have a favorite welding supply shop? I'm gonna need a tank of C25 and some .030 solid core.

Also, anyone who's a decent welder have a free evening to show me the ropes on some scrap? I figure I'll mangle a few chunks of scrap, then build myself a welder car before moving on to a GT/Forza cockpit seat and eventually some seat brackets for the SVX once I've got enough practice to make some solid welds.

Airgas

I don't know if it's the same company, but I go to Airgas here too. They have an agreement for tanks like a propane exchange, you just take your empty tank in and they hand you a new one that's full.

^Yep.

That's pretty much SOP everywhere as far as I know.

Last night I tired my hand at some flux-core beads. I suck. I have a really hard time not being able to see w/ the hood down when I strike the arc. I'm thinking I should return the helmet I got and spend the extra money for an auto-tinting one... just one more obstacle to get out of my way while learning.

I was able to weld some scrap pieces together though. It looks like crap, esp. due to the slag, but I think the welds are strong. I guess the only way to really know is to bust out the grinder and take the pieces apart.

Regular helmets suck for precisely that reason. I have an auto-tint, and it's the best thing since the invention of beer, porn & racecars.

Scott, I wouldn't take the easy way when you first learn. You don't want to become one of those people who can only weld in a shop with an autoglass and with perfect conditions.

Meh. I'm not trying to become a welder with marketable skills. I just want to be able to throw together some stuff in my garage if I need to.

Honestly.. not that I'm saying that would happen, but even if it did - where is he going to be doing his welding? In the garage, with good conditions. So who really cares? It's not like he's going to take a job doing overhead welding hanging by a harness inside a steam turbine facility or something.

When I did my very first welding in school, we had manual helmets. I hated them from the first day, and still do. They were the single biggest impediment to laying down a good bead, cause I couldn't see what the hell I was doing.

I'm never hiring n00b Auto-tinter Scott!!!

That isn't what I meant. Think automotive application. Not saying that you do any of these things but maybe you will be out on a jeep trail when something breaks or maybe you would like to weld on your busted up track car. You don't always have access to an autoglass and it would be kind of pathetic if you couldn't run a nice bead with a regular flip down hood. Its really not that big of a deal if you can hold still for 1.5 seconds while you flip it down.

I know what you're saying, but still. He's not gonna have his welder with him on a trail, it'll be in the garage. I do always have access to my helmet, cause it's in the garage.. sitting next to the welder. Which is the only place I weld.

Actually, the autotint will allow him to learn faster, since he is self-taught. If he can do a nice job using the autotint, then he will know exactly what to do if he is ever put in a situation where he can't see crap.

It's like anything else - if you learn on the best, you know where the limitations are on the cheesy stuff and can make finer adjustments in the right direction.

That statement doesn't make sense to me. If you learn to race in a full race ready car you will be a better driver than starting out with a stock car? All I am saying is that you guys are making a mountain out of a mole hill. When you say "I can't see crap" you either mean that the lens is too small or that once you slide the hood down you lose all sense of time and space and can't remember where your hand was when the hood was up. Its one of the first things most welders learn to overcome. The main reason someone buys an autoglass is if they are doing a lot of shop welding and it become as matter of convenience not having to flip the hood up and down. An auto hood is nice obviously but for a nice one you will pay the same if not more than you just did for the welder.

Anytime you are talking about some aspect of a tool limiting your ability, then my statement holds true. If the auto-tint hood is beyond Scott's ability (like maybe an F1 car would be initially), then he should stay away from it. Think about it like this: I could teach you to shoot long range with an off-the-shelf rifle that will induce more error on average than one of my custom guns. It would take longer, and be more frustrating for both of us. Or, we could reduce the equipment error so that you could concentrate on the techniques and see the results clearly.

Cost.....when buying certain tools, cheap has its limitations.....

And at least at HF, they are only $50-80...

http://search.harborfreight.com/cpis...lmet&Submit=Go

...

I figured out why they're so much cheaper... they're don't meet the current ANSI standard. They meet the 1989 standard.

That said, at 1/3 the cost of a current auto dimmer with those features, and 1/2 the cost of a bottom of the barrel current auto dimmer, over my lunch break, I bit the bullet and picked one up. At only $20 over the cost of standard glass helmet, I figure it'll work for me considering it's not like I'll be using it every day.

I do feel kinda sticky all over though after being in Harbor Freight. :shudder:

Also, I went over to airgas at Juice's recommendation and the chick that helped me out was super helpful. I bought a 40CF tank of C25, which should be plenty to get me by for a while. I thought I wanted an 80CF tank... turns out, the 40CF tank is what I thought the 80Cf tank was. :lol: I would have had to go home and pick up the truck if I were buying the 80CF tank.

Any idea what the ANSI change was? Is the new standard less than 1/25,000 second for auto-dim?

I know, saving money can have that effect. :)

The new standard requires manufacturers to rate the LCD time within a temperature range (30F to 130F IIRC). A lot of good a 1/25,000 helmet does if it's only that responsive at 150F, meanwhile, on a cold day it's 1/2000.

For the most part, the cheap-o autoglass helmets that meet the current standard are 1/3600. Which is fine for occasional use, but tend not to work for TIG welding below 20amps, or for frequent tack welding where all you're doing is striking an arc over and over again. They're also not usually adjustable.

The HF helmet I picked up says it's 1/25,000 (which is comical because even the $600 helmets are only 1/20,000) and can be adjusted from shade #9 to #13. I'm guessing it's actually more like a 1/3600 at cold temps, which is fine at that price, IMO.

Makes sense. Make a habit of blinking as you strike the arc just in case. :) Still better than flipping down a helmet as you do.

I'm jealous. I've wanted to learn to weld for years and never done it.

If it's any consolation: welding is messy, hot, stinky, burns your clothes, and I'm really bad at it. :lol:

IBkevinthatswhatshesaid

So I knew welding arcs gave off the full UV spectrum but I didn't think 10 minutes of welding would give my arms a sunburn. :unamused:

:lol:

Long sleeve shirt & jeans, dude. If I'm going to be doing anything other than tacking things in place, I have a heavy cotton button up shirt I keep in the garage just for welding, and a leather apron I use sometimes too.

Yeah, I wasn't planning on really doing much. I was just screwing around for about 10 minutes to see if I got the gas hooked up properly. W/ a 20% duty cycle, I couldn't have been exposed to the arc for more than about 2 minutes total... yet my left bicep between where my gloves end and my sleeve began now has a nice sunburn. :unamused: :lol:

Welding is hard on your skin eyes and lungs. Always have excellent ventilation and skin protection as you now know.

Oh my god, what a nice break from being over at Flat4

In case anyone else is planning to follow suit: http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/...7&keycode=0000

I've been waiting for Josh to chime in over hear. He's started welding too. We are barrowing a 240v tig and got an old mig (I think) for $50 bucks from the neighbor across the street. From the looks of Josh's work I'd say the tig is a lot easier to work with. For safety He has a sweet blue welding jacket with flames and works in his mechanics monkey suit. I have a monkey suit too for working on the 510 :). I am enjoying grinding on the car. We are fortunately to have a welding supply place a mile from the house.

Good luck Scott with the practice :)

I don't know why they don't teach tig earlier in school. The way I was taught was oxy-acetylene , arc, mig, then tig last. I think tig should have come right after oxy-acet because the hand movements are the most similar with the addition of a foot pedal.

Correction:

I have a borrowed 240v Lincoln MIG, and my personal Miller 240v ARC/Stick welder. MIG is running .023" wire with C25/Gold Gas (25% CO2/75% Argon)

I probably have 30 minutes on the MIG welder. I was able to take to it much more quickly than the stick welder, as stick is tough to start.

I also have a HF Auto-darkening helmet, it's awesome. Cost ~60 I think.

My recommendation is to not waste your time on a 120v machine, but that's my personal opinion. But I intend on welding stuff thicker than 1/4". I just use the dryer plug in our garage, and have the welders setup to use the same plug, works like a champion.

I'd like to get a TIG setup, as that's what I'd really like to cut my teeth on, but I'm gonna try and rack up the hours on the MIG before I consider dropping 1600+ on a TIG outfit.

Considering I got my brand new 120V MIG for about $600 less than the cheapest 240V Lincoln, I'm gonna go ahead and just do two passes on the thicker stuff.

I've decided that welding is not very hard. W/ the autoglass mask, it's a cinch to weld stuff together. However, making really pretty, pro-quality looking welds is still beyond me... but that's not a big deal to me, 'cause I'm not selling anything.

Over the weekend, I built myself a trailer hitch mounted angle bender. I'll do up at least 10 gauge 5" wide steel, up to a 90 deg bend, with a 1/2" radius. Though if I were to cut the hinge I used off and flip it 180 deg I think I can get more like 120 deg bends out of it...

Either way, I've got what I need now to make some seat brackets for the SVX, I just need some 10 gauge steel at a decent price. Anyone have a recommendation for a local place that sells steel stock? Home Depot is retard expensive and has no selection (I priced out the cost of material to build a welding cart, and the material alone cost more than just buying a cart from Lincoln).

Some scrap yards resell used stock. The one on 4th street used to be a great source for all sorts of stuff, but then they closed, but I heard they reopened. There is also one down in Moundhouse I got some stuff from in the past. You just wonder around and find pieces that match your needs and pay by the pound.

Ugh.

I'd rather just by a couple of 10ga 2"x6' pieces of mild steel and be done with it. Only problem is that Home Depot/Lowes don't seem to carry stuff that big, and if they did, it'd be $45 each.

Sorry, I thought you wanted cheap. Have you tried the first 5 or so of these... If you need something but can't go get it during business hours, I might be able to get it for you.

Metal Masters is Pat R.'s buddy who used to give us a killer deal on powder coating, but he has a huge metal fab shop as well.

Carson masonry & steel supply would work as well, but they are a drive.

There's a difference between "cheap" and "having to get a tetanus shot before I go rooting around in a scrap yard" and Home Depot's 300% markup. So yeah, I do want cheap, just not so cheap it takes me a whole day of digging through a scrap yard to find what I'm looking for every time I need to build something. :lol:

Certainly I can do the legwork of calling around and trying to find a place... but I'd much rather go somewhere that someone else has already used that can be recommended. I'm a noob at this stuff, so I'd much rather go on the personal recommendation of someone that deals with places like this (Knucklesplitter, where are you?) than my own experience.

titiwop







Did I do that right?