Buying advice...
 

Hey guys, I haven't been on the site ever since my dad sold the sti a few years ago. Some of you might know me from 3-4 years ago when you all used to meet at bullys. I was sort of an on-looker with my dad since I wasn't the one with the car but I have learned alot about them since then. At one point I was driving the STi almost daily so I can handle myself with a quick car un-like most people my age...

Basically I finally figure it's time to pick up a subaru of my own that I can track and autocross. I have been looking mainly in the 02-05 range. I am at a major toss up between getting an sti or getting a wrx. The price and availability of sti's is what I am most held back by. Also it won't be left stock, so if I did get a wrx most everything suspension wise would be addressed.

So what do you guys think? I am looking for a DD/Weekend Warrior. I love hatches but they are hard to find.

I would vote '05+ STI if you can afford it and drive it mostly stock for a year before making many mods.

a 2.5l WRX might be a good option for less $s, but if you plan to track it at all brake and transmission upgrades will quickly eat the $ delta to an STI.

If you are budgeting for Mods, keep a short block with Forged internals on the list because the stock internals will break eventually and not planning for it will be a big budget shock/breaker.

Yeah just seems like the premium for STI's insurance and sale price are the real shocker. So you wouldn't recommend a 02-03 bugeye for a starter DD and Auto-x'er?

It won't be track as much, maybe once or twice a year but auto x every event most likely. I have an idea of what I want to do first though, sways and some stiffer springs to keep everything tidy bod roll wise.

If you end up going with a WRX, don't do any major mods to it. Stick to bolt-on suspension stuff, Stage 2 on the engine, and maybe brakes. Making a WRX the performance and reliability equal of an STi costs more than buying one up front, so don't try to get too grand with it.

For what you want to do, an STi is clearly what you're looking for, but the entry price issue is understandable. Just use a WRX as a bridge to getting there when you can afford it in a few years.

I wouldnt dump money into a wrx for alot of reasons... I realized that for how much sti's are above wrx's, in the long run it would pay off to eat the extra 50 bucks or so a month and commit to an sti. As far as years, would 04 be a no no? 05 and 06 seem like my options.

There is nothing wrong with a 2l WRX or an '04 STI if that is what you have the budget for. I beat the snot out of an '02 WRX for years.

Spend less than you can afford would be my suggestion and save the extra for repairs or nestegg for the next purchase.

Only minor issues with the '04 STI, which I have, is the front wheel bearings and wheel clearance/sizes/options. The price difference is not typically much for the same mileage which is why I said '05+.

I see what you mean. I will have to check into my bank and credit unions to see what I can handle for an sti vs wrx.

As for issues, what mileage would be too high? I am coming from the other side of the spectrum (rock crawling jeep) where mileage can be anything really. What should I except to go wrong?

In general, any Subaru forced induction engine can expect to need a rebuild between 100-150K or sooner if modded.

Front wheel bearings on anything but an '05+ STI fail somewhere along the line. Nissan bearing replacement with good grease lasts longer. 5MTs may fail if you beat them or last forever if you are nice to them. :) Struts wear out.

If you plan for $1000/year maintenance above oil & such you are probably pretty well off when stuff goes wrong. They really are pretty damn reliable.

That's another thing for me is the 5MT, having that 6th gear would just be much more cherry for highway driving.

Actually, 6th gear in an STi is about the same as 5th in a WRX.

That is totally untrue. The STi cruises at least 3-400RPM lower in top gear. Might be more like 500 but it has been a while since I road tripped with Sue and compared.

If this was true that would help me decide quite a bit...

2002 WRX:
Gear Ratios
1 : 3.454:1
2 : 1.947:1
3 : 1.366:1
4 : 0.972:1
5 : 0.738:1
Final drive : 3.9:1

2004 STI:
1st: 3.636
2nd: 2.375
3rd: 1.761
4th:1.346
5th:0.971
6th: 0.756
Final drive : 3.9:1

So My STI is 2.4% higher ratio than my WRX was if I have the right ratios and did the math right, so I was high in my estimate. :( Still, That should be 72RPM at 3000RPM and basically 100 at 4000. Doesn't seem like much but I sure noticed the drop when I changed cars. The WRX just sounded like it was whining down the road at 70+.

What is interesting is how 5MT 4th is almost identical to 6MT 3rd.

Doesn't seem like a huge difference...

On our 07 we has kw v3's and some big sways. I liked how it handled but it got brutal on streets sometimes. Would some decent struts and springs be okay?

what is your price range

Huh? :huh:

Since when is 0.972:1 "almost identical" to 1.761:1?

Did you mean the 5MT's 4th compared to the 6MT's 5th? 'Cause that's the whole point of the 6MT... is was *never* related to fuel savings while cruising... the top 2 gears in both boxes are supposed to be nearly the same.

The 6MT adds an extra gear down low to allow you to stay in the boost better when rallying under 100mph. The point of the 6MT is to add acceleration on the low end, not fuel savings on the top end.

It all depends, but i'd like to go below 20k

Bought my bugeye new. Went Stage II with custom tune at around 60K miles. I now have 130K miles on it. It's been nothing but dependable. I've had one front and one rear wheel bearing go out on me. That's about it for failures though. The turbo inlet pipe was my fault. I've autocrossed it for 5 years. I got 2nd place in PAX last year and sometimes I even beat similarly moded STi's in raw time (that's a new development as of last year though).

Love everything about my car including the gas milage. 2.0 L FTW. Make sure you get one manufactured in late 2002 (MY 03) or after so you get the stronger gears.

I've had the following suspension setups and though my current one is the best with regard to comfort and performance, they were all great.

1st Eibach Prokit Springs (wagon specific FWIW (nothing)) with KYB AGX struts - Ok
2nd Crucial Springs with KYB AGX struts - noticeably better
3rd Crucial Springs with Koni Yellow inserts in wagon doner struts - the best

Just buy my car.

This is honestly exactly what I want to hear. Thanks for a good post mang.

So your saying that 2.5 v 2.0 it would work better to have the 2.0 for DD duty?

Hahaha, no way. Cody is very, very diligent about maintenance, he studies potential mods very carefully and frankly, he's had good luck. Unless you can buy a car with a background as good as his, don't count on having a worry-free 2.0 liter. There's really no advantage to them other than a slight gas mileage advantage (and I mean slight, less than 10% at regular cruise in most cases).

I don't disagree with any of this, except that the 2.5L is much more prone to ringland (piston) failure due to knock. This means a really good conservative tune becomes even more important with a 2.5L than it is with the 2L.

If you can swing it, get the STi. There's an extremely long list of people that bought, modified, and then took a big loss on a WRX so they could buy an STi. The 2.5L is worth it for the extra power and the 6 speed is bullet proof just in case you decide to every go big. You can make a WRX faster than a stock STi easily and cheaply, but once you factor in the brakes, drivetrain, and other minor upgrades, the STi makes more sense for anyone thinking of modifying and/or racing a Subaru.

Unfortunately most older WRX's have been beat on. But if you could find one that has been properly driven and cared for, and don't go beyond stage II, you should be set for less money than an STi.

I hear ya.

I met up with rory today and looked at his 07 wrx wagon and loved it. So if all goes well I will have it by the weekend

Nice!

Rory's wagon is sweet. Congrats.

I should have said no major failures. I just remembered that my keyless entry has an electrical gremlin and I had to replace the windshield wiper linkage.

lol not bad for a fairly old car!

But yeah if all goes well it should be on my driveway within the week. I'm pretty :D

Holy shit. WRX's are "fairly old cars" now? :unamused: :(

Well 02's are 10 years old around now...

I guess "older car" varies? ;)

IMO, an "old car" is one old enough that they're not seen on the street much anymore, yet they aren't old (or cool) enough for nostalgia to render them "vintage".

Here's an old car:

http://automobiles.your-honda.com/19...a%20Accord.jpg

Hell, my SVX is 17 years old, and it's really not missing anything that a brand new $30,000 car has... it's just got a lot of miles on it and looks like it's from the 90's. But I'd have a hard time calling it "an old car", and if a 17 year old SVX is only borderline... then a 2002 WRX isn't "old". A bone stock '02 WRX is still faster than a lot of cars being sold today.

But the real point here is probably that I'm old now apparently... so a 10 year old WRX doesn't seem all that ancient. I bought my '02 WRX brand new in 2001... it's in my garage right now... when I drive it, it sure doesn't feel like an old car to me. Maybe I need to buy a new car to see what I'm missing?

No need to explain how you feel... I can understand what you mean. I guess to me, I'm young, iPhones feel "old" now lol.

But I guess what I mean it's "older" not old.

Lol your wrx isn't so much wrx anymore ;)

That's very true! :lol:

I feel old, and I think my car is getting old too. But I've never had a car for anywhere near as long as this one. I guess when you're 32, owning a car for 10 years is a pretty big chunk of your life.

lol I guess I don't have that feeling yet.

Any recommendations on tires? It has snows on it right now and I was looking at the GY Eagle F1 Asymmetrical for summers. Thoughts?

Maybe the Direzzas??

Goodyears are mediocre. Go with some Direzza StarSpecs or the new Kumhos for cost effectiveness.

That, or just buy something cheap, black and round.

All the cool kids are doing it. StarSpecs are the shit.

Lol I will look into them. It's nice that they seems fairly inexpensive too

We'd be suggesting RE-11's if they were the same price. ;)

They are both awesome tires for autoX, the wider the better. But like all wide sticky tires, they will hunt a bit on the freeway and you won't get as many miles out of them as you would a normal summer tire...not great for gas milage either. That's why I have a (narrow) Summer set (Rotas and Bridgestone Sport Maxx) and a (wider) AutoX set (5Zigens and StarSpecs). But most people just have one set they use for AutoX and Summer driving, which is fine.

Yeah i'm planning on 245's and seeing how it goes. I will roll and pull if needed...

I'm just glad to have the snow's situation figured out...

No "if needed" about it. You're not putting 245's under a wagon's un-rolled fenders. ;)

Well good to know lol. There is that big of a clearance difference?

I run 245's on my wagon. Not sure if there's any difference on yours since it's a MY07 (doubt it), but I have a simple role and run about -1.8 camber in the rear IIRC to keep them from hitting the fenders. My wheels are 17X8 ET48 though. I think most wheels in this size are ET45 which puts the tire 3mm closer to the fender.

YMMV based on other factors too, like suspension.

Yeah I may go smaller until I can go coilivers and camber plates. We'll see though.

Wagons don't have the fender flares sedans have. So while 245's are "easy" on a sedan, they're trouble on wagons.

Of course, suspension makes a huge difference on what fits and what doesn't. Lowering the car will lose you a ton of room, but you also tend to get more camber adjustability that makes up for it, for example.

Practically speaking for a car with basic suspension mods and no fender clearancing, 245s are the limit on a sedan, and 225s are the the limit on a wagon, IMO. More than that and you have to start planning what you're doing with camber, wheel offsets, fender rolling, etc.

245's on my wagon as well. But I am also on coilovers, with 17x8 +45 wheels. Have a little roll on my rear fenders, nothing to drastic.

That's my eventual goal :D

Get your car at the height you want, then figure out tire, not the other way around. Honestly, the cars are more fun on a 225 or a 235 tops - you get wider and sure, there's more grip, but for something you drive every day it's overkill.

A 235/40/17 is a great fit on a 17x8 and can be done without too much work a WRX wagon (slightly more fender room than my car)

I can "fit" 245 rcomps on my wagon, but they don't *fit* ;)

http://www.hooptywagon.com/img/carsh...c/IMG_9261.JPG

Very true. I should have probably also stated that I only use the 245's for Auto-X, and DD on 225's.

Picked up the wagon today. It is plenty fast for what I want. I think I will leave engine mods alone for a long time.

Suspension wise I was impressed but the body roll does need to be addressed. I think so beefy swaybars would be a god send in this situation...

Thoughts?

Cobb/Hotchkis hollow bars, whichever is cheaper. They are the same bars made by Hotchkis, but Cobb is often cheaper.

On the cobb site the bars are no where in sight? Maybe I am blind.

What about white line?