The Rad Wagon... now with 100% more radness
 

Thanks to Cory and Bob at KSpeed for sneaking me into their busy schedule to install the wheels and coilovers. :)

Coilovers are BC Racing Outback XT fitment. The rear hops around a little more than I was expecting over big bumps (spring rates are barely stiffer than stock) but the car does seem to handle very nicely. I wonder how close to the bumpstops the rears are.

Wheels are the best cheap wheels around: 18x8+45 MB Motorsports Erasers from Discount Tire Direct. Tires are 245/45/18 Michelin Pilot Super Sports.

Looks awesome, love those MB wheels

With the secret weapon license plate no less, that's fantastic.

Later, when you do that 6MT swap and go 5x114, I'll sell you back the ATech Erasers we got from you a couple years ago. :)

needs MOAR exhaust tip.

I think the JDM parts list required to get a bumper with cutouts for exhaust tips costs more than that 6MT swap Kevin mentioned.

I have a dremel if you want to use it. I can come by and help.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62...J/557e861e.gif

Nice! Wheels do look nice. Gunmetal?

Yup. They're a little more blue than I was expecting, but they sorta match the blue paint on the car.

Its nice to see the 'plus size' subarus here.

Power upgrades on the horizon?

Cool car. And license plate.

Are you saying his car should shop at Lane Bryant?

It looks good! I saw it at Kspeed yesterday.

Maybe the distant horizon. At most I'd do a downpipe, fuel pump and reflash... and the AVO TMIC if it turns out to need it. But having gone down the route of built engines in my WRX... I'd really much rather have a fun but slow OBXT than a crazy fast one that's always broken like the WRX is.

In suspension news, the rear end bouncyness *does* appear to be because the car is sitting on the bump-stops. There's all of 1/2 a mm of clearance between the bumpstop and the upper control arm... so the slightest deflection puts the stop in play... and that rubber is *stiff*. So I'm betting the car is effectively on an underdamped 15k rear spring instead of the 6k it's supposed to be. :lol:

The car is on jack stands right now in my garage... I'll have the bumpstops off as soon as I figure out how the hell you get to the bolts holding them on. Google, don't fail me now!

The bumpstops were the culprit. With them off, the car rides pretty much identically to stock. :cool: The only problem... now I don't think the rear-end is stiff enough. When it was on the stops, it friggen turned way better. :lol:

Hopefully just cranking the rear to full-stiff will get some rotation out of the car at the track. But even if that's not the case, I'm super stoked that it's still nice and comfy on the street.

Looking good.

Ver' nice, sir. You can always toss GT bumpstops in there to split the difference :lol:

I also need to outfit you with 100% more wagon mafia logo.

Yeah, I'm not sure if the LGT stops will be low enough or not... Nick is gonna snap a picture of his car. Likely though, I'll just get a set of LGT stops and then cut them if I need even more clearance.

Anyone have a part number for them BTW?

Edit: looks like the P/N I need is 20501AE00A.

I tried to snap that picture, but I couldn't get a clear shot, or focus correctly. No biggie, I did a quick search on legacygt.com and found this thread.

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthrea...xt-140548.html

The guy has a pic of the OBXT vs. LGT rear bumpstops.

The LGT stop certainly won't be up against the control arms at rest the way the OBXT ones were... but I'm not totally sure I'll be able to stay off them when the suspension moves.

I guess I'll just need to get a set and try it out... they're only like $8 each, and I can certainly cut the LGT ones down even more if I need to.

Yeah, just nip the tip if need be.

:eek:

Unless there is a compelling reason not to, the stop should come into play 1/4-1/2" before coil bind or the strut bottoms out, whichever comes first. Anything else is just limiting travel and an instant spring rate jump which is seldom good.

I'll need to pull the wheels off to get a good look at the rear suspension to figure out what the ideal length should be. I'm a little hesitant to cut the stop significantly though, the stop is supposed to be a progressive helper spring essentially, cutting too much off the tip just turns it into a doorstop effectively rather than a helper.

True enough, given its shape. You could shave the sides as well as cutting which would keep the helper aspect.

If you take the wheel off and put the bottom of the knuckle in the cup of a jack and then put some nylon straps on the spring and ratchet them down to simulate deflection, you should be able to see most everything.

For what its worth, your car would have to be about the same height as mine (give or take) and I don't ride on the standard LGT bumpstops.

Unless, of course, the OBXT has differently shaped links/arms where it contacts the bumpstops.

Took some new pictures:

http://www.seccs.org/gallery/Car%20P..._side_near.jpg

http://www.seccs.org/gallery/Car%20P...front_high.jpg

http://www.seccs.org/gallery/Car%20P..._front_low.jpg

http://www.seccs.org/gallery/Car%20P..._rear_near.jpg

http://www.seccs.org/gallery/Car%20P...k_rear_far.jpg

http://www.seccs.org/gallery/Car%20P...side_front.jpg

Clean looking ride man. Are you planning on having some kids or are you just wasting that wagons full potential.

It's weird seeing something that low that has that much sidewall. Looks great though! The FXT would look like that if I'd kept the STi setup on it during the winter.

The wagon looks good in motion too.

very nice!

That's cutting it pretty close in terms of avoiding coil bind, which really is an instant spring rate jump.. far more so than a rubber stop engaging. You should have it spaced to allow full stop compression before coil bind, plus a little margin.

Well, I slapped a pair of the smaller Legacy GT bumpstops under there, and if I'm hitting them at all, I haven't noticed it. So, I'm going to call it "done", at least until after Saturday when I take the car to the track. We'll see how much tire rubbing and bump stop bumping I do. I get the feeling I'm going to need to clearance out the fenders a tiny bit at least.

Also, I put some polyurethane offset LCA bushings on the front suspension. They add a bunch of caster... so much so that the wheel is noticeably pushed forward in the wheel well. I'm actually rubbing up front at high steering angles, when parking the car for example. Plus, if any one single bushing makes the biggest difference in NVH on a Subaru, it's that LCA bushing. The damn polyurethane makes any rough road (like all the crappy slurry sealed roads in my neighborhood) scream with a low growl. I think I'm going to ditch the bushings after the track day... which sucks because 6.5 deg of caster really makes up for the tiny -2.1 deg of camber Cory was able to max out of the suspension. But, I'm an old man now apparently, and I can't stand a noisy car. I think I'll have to get a set of the heavy-duty STi LCA bushings... no caster help, but they should be quieter and hopefully won't tear in half the way the stock Outback ones do.

It's funny how a harsh ride is getting more irritating as I get older. :lol:

Urethane bushings generally suck for suspension pivots though, I don't recommend.

The radwagon looks awesome BTW.

Yeah, the poly bushing is an interesting one. It's 3 pieces... the center piece is molded like a hinge of sorts with bevels that allow a the steel sleeve through it to rotate, then above and below are additional poly rings that locate the bushing vertically.

So, as the control arm moves, the bevel pivots on the vertical steel sleeve. The upper and lower rings are free to move horizontally, but there will be some binding since they are sandwiched vertically. But it's not just a straight polyurethane replacement bushing.

Wow, that's one high tech bushing!

Yeah, with all the apparent thought that went into it, it's too bad they couldn't have made the upper and lower bushings out of rubber... I think it would be a ton quieter.

Just grow some chest hair and install spherical bearings everywhere, it'll handle great. :lol:

:lol: I actually don't care about how great it handles. If it handles a little better than stock, that's good enough! I just want it quiet and not prone to falling apart.

The whole reason I installed those LCA bushings is because the stock ones tend to fail like every 30,000 miles on a stock, street-driven car. Since mine is lowered and going to the track a few times a year, I figured I should get something that will hold up in there, and since I could get a caster advantage at the same time, why not. Well, the "why not" is because it's too damn noisy!

I wonder if I could get some rubber bushings for the top and bottom of that pressed-in poly offset bushings. It probably would really quiet things down, while still giving me the better caster without the shearing issue of the stock bushings.

For reference, here's what happens to the OEM bushings:



Here's the STi version... note the filled-in holes on the sides:


Here's the AVO polyurethane bushing that I diagrammed earlier:
http://www.infamousperformance.net/m...1cfdbe58_m.jpg

http://inlinethumb41.webshots.com/43...600x600Q85.jpg

What do you think about trying to source some rubber replacements for the top/bottom poly bushings on that AVO setup?

Just in terms of the bushing assembly performance I'd say it's worth a try, but I think finding something in the right size and also the right durometer would be a challenge. You might have to get someone to make it for you, and then price is of course the issue..

Most of your NVH with that setup though is probably being transmitted from steel arm -> poly center bushing -> crush sleeve -> chassis.. so I'm not sure changing the two locating bushings would have a big effect.

Just from looking at it I'm also not a fan of the offset in the bushing, just because you have such a thin section on one side. Not much material there to hold up under repeated shock loads. Do they advertise any durability performance for these? I'd be sort of surprised if they lasted longer than the OE bushing in real testing..

It looks thinner than it really is due to the bevel. During normal operation, there's probably 15mm of cushion minimum, and the control arm can't really deflect all tha much. People buy this bushing specifically to combat the short lifespan of the stock rubber ones and I've never heard of anyone complaining of a failure. And the parts been around for years.

I'm just jaded cause most aftermarket companies are complete shite piles with no real development or testing behind the stuff they sell, but if these hold up then huzzah. :cool:

So how did it feel on the track? you went with the poly urethane right ?

Yeah, I had the poly in there at the track, but the rubber STi bushings are on order... I'll be putting them back in this weekend, the urethane is just too noisy around town. Maybe if Reno didn't seem to slurry seal the streets around here every year I'd leave them, because the extra caster is really nice... but the roughness of the slurry just results in this constant low growl of noise at any speed over about 10 mph... it's so bad it shakes all the change in my ashtray. :lol:

Anyway, at the track, the car did pretty well. I'm not sure how much the LCA bushings contributed to the handling because the wheels, tires, and coilovers were all new since my last track day. I'm going to guess the tires made about 80% of the difference because the coilovers have just barely stiffer than stock spring rates.

I got a decent bit of rubbing up front on the leading edge of the tire on the inboard side of the fender liners, but it was much less than I was expecting. So little in fact that I bet I'll be okay once the rubber LCA bushings are back in there. I'll just have to take a look this weekend and see how bad it is... I may want some new liners before the winter just to keep water out of the inner fender area... we'll see how much damage there was.

In my last session of the day, I hooked up with Don Smith's miata for 5 or 6 laps and was able to keep up lap after lap... I was just barely slower than him in the corners, and easily faster on the straights. We ended up running some lead/follow back and forth for a bit, but when I push the wagon it starts getting pretty hot just like the WRX... water temps came up to the 1st line above normal, and oil temps were around 125C (about 260F) which is a little more than I wanted to see... but unlike the WRX, just taking a few slow laps, the car cooled back down.

Oh, and I never noticed hitting the LGT bumpstops. :cool:

Nice well all except the running hot bit, damn turbo cars.

The handling sounds nice, your vibrations seem like too much.. ugh drinking coffee might chip a tooth!

Do you think air through the radiator is colliding with the air from the hood scoop making the pressure behind the radiator a bit higher than ideal? I know you mentioned how the factory under hood tray , is there to assist in lowering the pressure behind the radiator but i wonder if its still "enough" at track speeds ?

I'm wondering what an absolute pressure gauge would be reading , behind the radiator at various speeds (ramping up to track speeds) ?

or is the factory setup just not quite adequate for a track day in august ? (radiator a touch too thin ) ? hmm

Well, on my WRX I think I was definitely having an issue with the hoodscoop. Without a TMIC in there, there was nothing to prevent the scoop from pressurizing the engine bay which in turn reduces the airflow through the FMIC, oil cooler and radiator up front. I've since then blocked off my hoodscoop, but I haven't run the car at the track since then, so we'll see if it makes a big difference. With the Outback, the TMIC there should back up the air enough I wouldn't think the hoodscoop could raise the engine bay pressure excessively.

Now there were the rumors back in the day about the bugeye scoops not being able to get adequate airflow at speeds over 100mph. First, I have no idea if that rumor is true, or if it even would apply to the newer Legacy style hoodscoops. But more importantly, at the track I'm only over highway speeds in just a few spots, and even then I'm only at those speeds for short periods of time. So the likelihood that "track speeds" make a significant difference in the cooling aero of the car is pretty slim.

Really, I think the issue is that the car's cooling system, when working exactly as designed, simply can't handle running hard lap after lap in Fernely's high-altitude, high-heat, low-humidity conditions. A small front-mounted oil cooler would probably make a 10C difference though, which would be plenty for the wagon at the track. But on the other hand, I really don't need to run hard chasing a Miata around in the first place... if anything, driving slower is better for my student anyway (though for whatever reason, my student seemed to make much more progress right *after* the session where I drove harder than he did in previous sessions... but it could have just been that by the end of the day everything finally "clicked" for him behind the wheel).

You need some o' this goodness on the WRX (the hood venting.. but the rest of it's pretty sweet too).

Ducted radiator airflow ftw. Picked up 1-2 seconds per lap at Buttonwillow on the yellow car with that setup, and it helps cooling too..

It's exceedingly hard to do when the motor is located entirely in front of the front axle on a Subaru.

Wonder how that would effect flow into the existing hood scoop, even if you could fit a mini version of that hood vent.