Subaru Enthusiasts Car Club of the Sierras

Subaru Enthusiasts Car Club of the Sierras (https://www.seccs.org/forums/index.php)
-   Technical Chat (https://www.seccs.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=11)
-   -   Power Enterprises turbos! (https://www.seccs.org/forums/showthread.php?t=764)

sperry 2003-11-04 08:46 AM
Power Enterprises turbos!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Revolutions Motorsports' add in NASIOC
Power Enterprise reciently unvailed they're newest turbo's, the PE1414, and the PE1418! These turbo's are designed for quick spool up, good boost levels, long life, and to be very efficient.

http://images4.fotki.com/v41/photos/...Ebay016-vi.jpg
PE1418 on left, and PE1818 on the right

http://images4.fotki.com/v40/photos/...Ebay025-vi.jpg
PE1418 on left, and PE1818 on the right

Heres some quick info about the turbos that Power Enterprises has available:

PE1414
*Boost 2500-2700 rpm stock
*Peak efficiency 17psi
*Max boost 26.5 psi
*Ball Bearing
$1199, Retails for $1380
*Perfect for auto-x's, track racing, or daily driving. Ideal for anyone who hates turbo lag, and who seaks streetablity in an upgraded turbo!

PE1418
*Boost 2700-3000 rpm stock
*Peak efficiency 21 psi
*Max boost 28 psi
*Ball Bearing
$1199, Retails for $1380
*Perfect for auto-x's, track racing, the strip, or daily driving. Ideal for anyone who wants more power with out much lag, but is still a very versitile turbo. Almost the same as the PE1414 but exhaust wheel is changed for more upper end power. If you want to have boost sooner then stock and more power, this is the turbo for you!

PE1818
*Boost 3200-3500 rpm stock
*Peak efficiency 19 psi
*Max boost 32.3 psi
*Ball Bearing
$1499, Retails for $1780
*Great for those who want alot of power. Perfect for track racing, the strip, and daily driving. With a max psi rating of 32psi, the only question is can your motor handle the power that the PE1818 can put out?

PE1820
*Boost 3500-4000 rpm stock
*Peak efficiency 22.5 psi
*Max boost 32.3 psi
*Ball Bearing
$1499, Retails for $1780
*Disigned for all who want alot of power! Ideal for the strip, larger open tracks. The turbo does have a bit of lag But it is a monster! Do to the design of the turbo it can hand mid 20's for boost with out creating too much heat. The question is, can you handle the power that the PE1820 can put out?

If you have any questions please feel free to ask. Or contact us via email at revolutions@ecol.net. Or by phone at 715-834-5758.

Revolutions Motorsports
www.RevolutionsMotorsports.com

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=437922
they seem like some interesting alternatives to the standard VF series hairdryers. I guess they're all based on the IHI turbos, but with some mods for better efficiency and quicker spool, and they're all Ball Bearing. That 1418 looks like a great compromise... faster spool than stock, with some decent top end at 21psi. I'd like some flow numbers on these, but even w/o 'em it looks like these might be the next hot ticket in turbos.

Anyone know more about 'em? (*cough* S-Squared guys *couch*) Oh wait they're prolly at SEMA already... maybe they'll get some info about 'em in Vegas!

I'm also wondering what it'd take to setup a PE1418 on my ride. Prolly some STi injectors, Perrin fuel rails (I'm all about making safe boost), STi or Vishnu TMIC, Walbro, and a ECU Remap or XEDE. i.e. It's gonna cost a pretty penny! :shock:

AtomicLabMonkey 2003-11-04 09:23 AM
When the room gets very quiet... if I listen very carefully...



...I can already hear the sound of your bank account draining.

:P

ArthurS 2003-11-04 09:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey
When the room gets very quiet... if I listen very carefully...



...I can already hear the sound of your bank account draining.

:P
:lol: :lol: :lol:

sperry 2003-11-04 09:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey
When the room gets very quiet... if I listen very carefully...



...I can already hear the sound of your bank account draining.

:P
:lol:

Does it sound more like the bathtub draining or the toilet flushing?

AtomicLabMonkey 2003-11-04 01:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sperry
:lol:

Does it sound more like the bathtub draining or the toilet flushing?
More like the bathtub draining... a toilet flush sound would signal a complete waste, but at least this would make your racecar (the money-sucking black holes that they are) go a lot faster.

:lol:

sperry 2003-11-04 01:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by sperry
:lol:

Does it sound more like the bathtub draining or the toilet flushing?
More like the bathtub draining... a toilet flush sound would signal a complete waste, but at least this would make your racecar (the money-sucking black holes that they are) go a lot faster.

:lol:
:lol: wow, you put some thought into that reply!

tysonK 2003-11-04 06:22 PM
If the Peak efficiency range on the 1418 is 21psi what does that mean, is that what you would set the boost to peak at at for our car. 21psi is quite a bit of boost right? What kind of boost does can our little four banger handle for sustained periods of time?

I don't really understand teh Max Boost And Peak Effciency Numbers? :?

sperry 2003-11-04 10:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tysonK
If the Peak efficiency range on the 1418 is 21psi what does that mean, is that what you would set the boost to peak at at for our car. 21psi is quite a bit of boost right? What kind of boost does can our little four banger handle for sustained periods of time?

I don't really understand teh Max Boost And Peak Effciency Numbers? :?
Peak effeciency is the point where you can make the most boost without the heat generated by the turbo greatly effecting the chance of detonation. i.e. that turbo can make 28psi, but it's running so hot that the intake charge's heat promotes detonation, requiring the ECU to pull timing. Basically it's not really beneficial to run over 21 psi.

For comparison, the stock turbo's peak efficiency is around 15 to 15.5psi, but it can make like 18psi if you let it.

What's missing from all these specs are flow numbers. The stock turbo can max out at 18psi, but as the RPMs of the motor get up there, it becomes restrictive to the intake and/or exhaust flows. Ever notice on a stock turbo set to boost at like 16psi that at about 6000 rpm the boost actually backs off, even though the MBC is set for 16?

As far as the EJ20's ability to handle boost. The stock internals are good for like 18 to 20psi IIRC... but you have to prevent detonation. That means plenty of intercooler for that intake charge, and TONS of fuel to keep things from blowing up. The EJ20 block is really a great block... the only one that's better is the EJ22T, which is the basis for motors like I-Speed's 2.4. It's got forged internals and oil squirters that help keep the pistons cool and lubricated. I'll bet you can run almost 2bar (30psi) of boost in a well sorted out EJ22T. :twisted:

AtomicLabMonkey 2003-11-05 08:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sperry
Peak effeciency is the point where you can make the most boost without the heat generated by the turbo greatly effecting the chance of detonation.
I don't know if the auto aftermarket uses their own "special" terms, but in dealing with fans, which turbochargers are just smaller versions of, efficiency is just the relationship between power in (power required to drive the fan at X speed) and power out (power added to the airstream). So, the peak efficiency point would be where you're getting the most pressure and flow (from the compressor) output for the least power input (from the turbine).

sperry 2003-11-05 09:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey
I don't know if the auto aftermarket uses their own "special" terms, but in dealing with fans, which turbochargers are just smaller versions of, efficiency is just the relationship between power in (power required to drive the fan at X speed) and power out (power added to the airstream). So, the peak efficiency point would be where you're getting the most pressure and flow (from the compressor) output for the least power input (from the turbine).
That's a much better way of putting it. I was thinking of efficiency in terms of making power for the motor, but I think Austin's descripting is more accurate.

AtomicLabMonkey 2003-11-05 09:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sperry
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey
I don't know if the auto aftermarket uses their own "special" terms, but in dealing with fans, which turbochargers are just smaller versions of, efficiency is just the relationship between power in (power required to drive the fan at X speed) and power out (power added to the airstream). So, the peak efficiency point would be where you're getting the most pressure and flow (from the compressor) output for the least power input (from the turbine).
That's a much better way of putting it. I was thinking of efficiency in terms of making power for the motor, but I think Austin's descripting is more accurate.
I knew those 5 years of engineering school would come in handy someday... :lol:

STIwish 2003-11-05 01:29 PM
Quote:
I'm also wondering what it'd take to setup a PE1418 on my ride. Prolly some STi injectors, Perrin fuel rails (I'm all about making safe boost), STi or Vishnu TMIC, Walbro, and a ECU Remap or XEDE. i.e. It's gonna cost a pretty penny!
The STI injectors are probably enough for the setup, but the fuel rails are a complete waste according to most tuners, I'd probably go with a TXS TMIC for the setup, especially since ur looking for as little lag as possible... Walbro for sure.. and hell, i'd just pick up a UTEC... would be a TIZIGHT setup, not quite my style though.

sperry 2003-11-05 02:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by STIwish
Quote:
I'm also wondering what it'd take to setup a PE1418 on my ride. Prolly some STi injectors, Perrin fuel rails (I'm all about making safe boost), STi or Vishnu TMIC, Walbro, and a ECU Remap or XEDE. i.e. It's gonna cost a pretty penny!
The STI injectors are probably enough for the setup, but the fuel rails are a complete waste according to most tuners, I'd probably go with a TXS TMIC for the setup, especially since ur looking for as little lag as possible... Walbro for sure.. and hell, i'd just pick up a UTEC... would be a TIZIGHT setup, not quite my style though.
Parallel fuel rails will prevent #3 from being lower on pressure than the other cylinders. It's usually the 1st one to go. Even w/ a fuel pump, if the gas can't get out to the #3 cylinder fast enough, it doesn't matter how much the injector flows, that cylinder will still run lean... and at 21psi, that motor's done. That being said, this turbo probably won't make quite so much power that the fuel rails are totally necessary, I just like staying on the safe side. The only reason I ever want to have to pull the motor is because I've got an I-Speed to drop in there... and then I'd want to keep the EJ20 for my (imaginary) Porsche 914 autocross car... so I'm not about to blow it up! :lol:

The TXS TMIC is too big to fit in my car w/ my Whiteline STB and the A/C lines. The Vishnu and STi TMICs aren't quite as good, but they do fit w/o modification, and work with the IC hoses I already have.

XEDE is the same thing as the UTEC... both are user programable piggybacks... but the Xede came out after the Subaru ECU was cracked, so I'd bet it's got better signal generation to match what the ECU is expecting. Honestly, I think I'd rather run just the ECUTek remap, but then I'd be tuned for driving at sea level, and I think I'd rather be able to tweak it just a bit for high altitude.

AtomicLabMonkey 2003-11-05 02:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sperry
and then I'd want to keep the EJ20 for my (imaginary) Porsche 914 autocross car...
I dunno dude, I keep seeing older 5.0 Mustangs for like $2k or so, they're CP cars just waiting to happen... 8) Nothing like a hacked-up-body-fender-flared-racing-slicks-open-headers-V8.... [TimAllen /on]AaaaRrrrr AAaaRrrrrr AARRRRRRR!!![TimAllen /off]

sperry 2003-11-05 02:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by sperry
and then I'd want to keep the EJ20 for my (imaginary) Porsche 914 autocross car...
I dunno dude, I keep seeing older 5.0 Mustangs for like $2k or so, they're CP cars just waiting to happen... 8) Nothing like a hacked-up-body-fender-flared-racing-slicks-open-headers-V8.... [TimAllen /on]AaaaRrrrr AAaaRrrrrr AARRRRRRR!!![TimAllen /off]
Well, a dead Porsche 914 (no motor) is under $1000... plus $3000 for a 300hp Subaru motor, and now I've got a 2000lb Mid-Engined racecar! And I guarentee the Subaru motor I'd put in there would be just as loud as a CP Mustang... :lol:

AtomicLabMonkey 2003-11-05 03:05 PM
Or an American Iron car... Jason over at Mike's race shop has a mid-80s Mustang stripped-bare rolling chassis he's putting a full cage in right now to turn into an AI car... that thing is gonna be dope when he finishes it. The cage is really stout, it's triangulated out the ass and must connect to the frame in at least 12 places (including through the firewall to the strut towers).

tysonK 2003-11-05 10:32 PM
Ok.

So are the flow numbers gonna tell you how much better the power output will be at certian RPM's?

Would that PE1414 be more powerful at 15.5psi than the stocker or will it just spool up faster, Is 15.5psi always the same power but the delivery curve is less peaky? :?

I guess what I'm wondering like in Austin's definition that PE1414 can make the stock 15.5 earlier because it takes less to spin it and it can hold it till like redline I guess?

word up.

STIwish 2003-11-06 12:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sperry
Quote:
Originally Posted by STIwish
Quote:
I'm also wondering what it'd take to setup a PE1418 on my ride. Prolly some STi injectors, Perrin fuel rails (I'm all about making safe boost), STi or Vishnu TMIC, Walbro, and a ECU Remap or XEDE. i.e. It's gonna cost a pretty penny!
The STI injectors are probably enough for the setup, but the fuel rails are a complete waste according to most tuners, I'd probably go with a TXS TMIC for the setup, especially since ur looking for as little lag as possible... Walbro for sure.. and hell, i'd just pick up a UTEC... would be a TIZIGHT setup, not quite my style though.
Parallel fuel rails will prevent #3 from being lower on pressure than the other cylinders. It's usually the 1st one to go. Even w/ a fuel pump, if the gas can't get out to the #3 cylinder fast enough, it doesn't matter how much the injector flows, that cylinder will still run lean... and at 21psi, that motor's done. That being said, this turbo probably won't make quite so much power that the fuel rails are totally necessary, I just like staying on the safe side. The only reason I ever want to have to pull the motor is because I've got an I-Speed to drop in there... and then I'd want to keep the EJ20 for my (imaginary) Porsche 914 autocross car... so I'm not about to blow it up! :lol:

The TXS TMIC is too big to fit in my car w/ my Whiteline STB and the A/C lines. The Vishnu and STi TMICs aren't quite as good, but they do fit w/o modification, and work with the IC hoses I already have.

XEDE is the same thing as the UTEC... both are user programable piggybacks... but the Xede came out after the Subaru ECU was cracked, so I'd bet it's got better signal generation to match what the ECU is expecting. Honestly, I think I'd rather run just the ECUTek remap, but then I'd be tuned for driving at sea level, and I think I'd rather be able to tweak it just a bit for high altitude.
Well i got told.

AtomicLabMonkey 2003-11-06 08:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sperry
And I guarentee the Subaru motor I'd put in there would be just as loud as a CP Mustang... :lol:
Somehow I doubt that...

AtomicLabMonkey 2003-11-06 08:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tysonK
Ok.

So are the flow numbers gonna tell you how much better the power output will be at certian RPM's?

Would that PE1414 be more powerful at 15.5psi than the stocker or will it just spool up faster, Is 15.5psi always the same power but the delivery curve is less peaky? :?

I guess what I'm wondering like in Austin's definition that PE1414 can make the stock 15.5 earlier because it takes less to spin it and it can hold it till like redline I guess?

word up.
The efficiency doesn't really tell you anything about how fast it will spool up, it's just the point on the fan curve where you're getting the most output for the least power input.

sperry 2003-11-06 08:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by STIwish
Well i got told.
:lol: You weren't that far off. Like I said on the setup I mentioned, you could probably do w/o the fuel rails and never run a high EGT, but I'm all about safe over sorry.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:53 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All Content Copyright Subaru Enthusiasts Car Club of the Sierras unless otherwise noted.