[100_Percent_Juice]

Originally Posted by sperry

I have no problem with that. But are you saying the Bible is inspired by god, or the literal word of god? Because I would be willing to accept the Bible as "inspired" because to me, that doesn't imply a required literal interpretation.

Yes, that is what I believe. 2 Timothy 3:16 "All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness".



I appreciate that told me your beliefs and I can see that we have the same thinking on many things. The reason I asked you to do this was not so your beliefs could be put under scrutiny but so that I could know where you are coming from. I like to quote scripture when i talk about my belief so that you know what has caused me to come to the conclusions that I have in my own life.

Originally Posted by sperry

we do not have the capacity to understand god or anything that exists outside our universe.

I also believe this. The bible talks about God as being the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end, the king of eternity, the first and the last. The human mind can't fathom the thought of something that has always been and as having no beginning.

Originally Posted by sperry

I believe that morality comes from within each person, but is mostly a concept born out of mankind's nature to form a stable society... most people have an inherent moral compass that allows us to determine whether or not our actions are good for just us, or good for all of us.

You are defining what is talked about in the bible as a conscience. The word is translated from the Greek sy‧nei′de‧sis, which is drawn from syn (with) and ei′de‧sis (knowledge) and thus means co-knowledge, or knowledge with oneself. Conscience is a capacity to look at oneself and render judgment about oneself, bear witness to oneself. It also can be trained by the thoughts and acts, convictions and rules that are implanted in a person’s mind by study and experience. Based on these things, it makes a comparison with the course of action being taken or contemplated. Then it sounds a warning when the rules and the course conflict, unless the conscience is “seared,” made unfeeling by continued violations of its warnings. Conscience can be a moral safety device, in that it imparts pleasure and inflicts pain for one’s own good and bad conduct. Romans 2:14,15 says, “For whenever people of the nations that do not have law do by nature the things of the law, these people, although not having law, are a law to themselves. They are the very ones who demonstrate the matter of the law to be written in their hearts, while their conscience is bearing witness with them and, between their own thoughts, they are being accused or even excused.” Thus you can see that many laws of the nations are in harmony with a bible trained conscience, yet such nations and lawmakers may not have been influenced by Christianity at all.

The bible doesn't teach that this is something that has evolved in humans but, it has been there from the beginning. Something that God has built only into humans. Which is why my parents dog doesn't feel remorse for chewing up my kids brand new $35 Buzz Lightyear toy and my sisters cat doesn't feel guilty when it takes a dump in the clean clothes.

Originally Posted by sperry

We just need individuals willing to stand up for what's right and teach others, even at their own personal sacrifice, not unlike what Jesus did when he was martyred.

Couldn't you also argue that we don't need individuals but rather a single individual such as Jesus to take the lead? The bible teaches that Jesus is the King of God's "heavenly Kingdom" or government, that will do away will all of the flawed and ever changing governments of mankind and rule over all the earth. That is what I personally believe to make the most sense.

Originally Posted by sperry

...the implication that we as humans aren't anything special. IMO, the universe is so amazing on its own, that just being a tiny part of it, with the ability to think and reason and learn about it is already an amazing gift from god/the creator/FSM/whatever.

I agree. The human body and the universe are incredible and we will never understand either completely. I find it amazing when you think about things like the complexity of the human eye or how the earth is positioned perfectly from the sun. There is no other creation on this earth that is as amazing as the human being. The bible talks a great deal about God's creations and how beautifully made they are. Genesis 1:27 "God proceeded to create the man in his image, in God’s image he created him; male and female he created them." I think being created in God's image is a pretty big honor.

Originally Posted by sperry

I'm just fine with the idea that if god created the universe, we are probably such a tiny little eddy in the massive currents of time and space that god probably wouldn't even take notice of us, let alone bother to speak to us and guide us personally,

The bible teaches that God wants to help us and wants for us to have a relationship with him. Isiah 48:17 says that he is "the One teaching you to benefit [yourself]". James 3:8 says, "Draw close to God, and he will draw close to you."


I find that in actuality; a lot people don't really have a problem so much with what the bibles says. The biggest problem is that few truly understand the bible or have even read it themselves. There are countless religions using the bible to mislead people for their own selfish gain. They have taken things out of the bible, added false information, incorrectly translated it to fit their own bias, and most importantly have misrepresented God as being something unloving, hardhearted, uncaring, faceless, and unknowable.

Many people choose as you said, to blindly follow. I agree that this is wrong and foolish. The bible also agrees. The later part of Acts 17:11 says to be "carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so".
Proverbs 14:15 “Anyone inexperienced puts faith in every word, but the shrewd one considers his steps.”
Romans 12:2 "And quit being fashioned after this system of things, but be transformed by making YOUR mind over, that YOU may prove to yourselves the good and acceptable and perfect will of God." You can see by those scriptures that blind faith does not originate with God and the bible but, from man.

Here are some of the reasons I believe the bible and everything that I have mentioned to be true.

The Bible was written over a 1,600-year period. Its writers lived at different times and came from many walks of life. Some were farmers, fishermen, and shepherds. Others were prophets, judges, and kings. The Gospel writer Luke was a doctor. Despite the varied backgrounds of its writers, the Bible is harmonious from beginning to end.

The Bible is scientifically accurate. It even contains information that was far ahead of its time. For example, the book of Leviticus contained laws for ancient Israel on quarantine and hygiene when surrounding nations knew nothing about such matters.

At a time when there were wrong ideas about the shape of the earth, the Bible referred to it as a circle, or sphere. Isaiah 40:22 "There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth...". The Bible accurately said that the earth ‘hangs on nothing.’ Job 26:7 "He is stretching out the north over the empty place, Hanging the earth upon nothing". Of course, the Bible is not a science textbook. But when it touches on scientific matters, it is accurate.

The Bible is also historically accurate and reliable. Its accounts are specific. They include not only the names but also the ancestry of individuals. In contrast to secular historians, who often do not mention the defeats of their own people, Bible writers were honest, even recording their own failings and those of their nation. In the Bible book of Numbers, for instance, the writer Moses admits his own serious error for which he was severely reproved.

I could keep going but, I need to get some work done today.