Quote:
Originally Posted by A1337STI
my concern would be someone reads your comments about "you only have to look at Alex's STI to see what it does to your car" And my uphill battle has just been made a little bit steeper.
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Hold on there champ,
you brought up your car as the example of how rally-x doesn't hurt it, not me. You're better off using a non-hammered car as your example rather than trying to explain away the damage with the laundry list of other abuse it's suffered. Whether or not it's true, you're hurting your own argument, not me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by A1337STI
Exactly, I'm just trying to do for Rally cross what you and others did for our track program. Twist a few arms and get people exposed to it. Once a few more of our members come out and actually drive, they can make up their own minds about enjoyment, cost, paint chips, standing around time and decide for themselves if its "their kind of bag baby" !
the only difference is i doubt you had other seccs members posting about why people should avoid the track, in your threads about "please come out to the track"
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You're missing my point. My point was that trying to get people out to the track from the autocross program
didn't work. The vast majority of people that come out to the track these days joined SCCA specifically for the track program. Sure there are some people that do both, and people that switched over from autocross. But the program is viable *only* because new people joined specifically to run at the track.
Rally-x is likely going to be the same. You can twist other member's arms but in the end rally-x is only going to succeed if you can get new people to join SCCA specifically for the rally-x program. I'm not saying don't try to get existing members out there... I'm saying you should focus on attracting new people that are unaware the program exists. And certainly, don't insult the existing members that already contribute to the SCCA for not being interested.
And the parallel with the track program goes further. We had *tons* of resistance from autocrossers worried about breaking their cars at the track. We learned that there is basically *nothing* we can do to change their minds about it. If someone had unrealistic expectations about the possibility of wrecking their car, nothing we said would change their mind and get them out there. They had to see it with their own eyes that people were attending the events and coming away unscathed. Rally-x will work the same way, but not if the example you give is your STi, for the reasons mentioned above.
And there were in fact people in our threads talking about being worried about the track. Hell,
I was one of them: http://www.seccs.org/forums/showpost...17&postcount=9
Quote:
Originally Posted by A1337STI
And yes rally cross can do a bit of paint damage(my car is not a good example, its been abused outside of rally cross A LOT), but blue painters tape around your wheel wells and bottom 2" of your doors will eliminate almost all of the damage. also those strips of magnetic material work awesome to put on the bottoms of your doors. 
when you catch me flat out lying about rally cross, post up and call me out. if my post is factual, you could just leave it alone , you're not really helping anyone.
When's the last time i posted anything negative in a track thread you've started 
yet you've never left my threads alone... I don't think you hate rally/rally cross. but i do honestly think you are bitter that you and Matt R tried to start a program, and couldn't, and now you have sour grapes, making it impossible for you to resist posting something negative... guess i should feel bad for you |
First, I'm not trying to "call you out" for "lying" about rally-x. And criticism is not necessarily negative. My point is that your acceptable level of damage from rally-x is likely far, far higher than most SCCA-ers. We have people that don't track because they're worried about the damage from going off the pavement. And people that don't autocross anymore because the surface at Stead got loose and they don't want to get gravel damage. You should respect that other people aren't going to agree with you about what's acceptable, and that changing their minds on the concept is going to be difficult to impossible. Pointing out things like the availability of the club car and techniques for taping the car up to protect it are useful... but attacking me for reminding you that some people aren't willing to accept any level of damage is not.
As far as the "sour grapes" comment...
If you are really serious about promoting rally-x you'd should be willing to listen to the comments from people that tried it and failed so you don't repeat history. At this point, the Reno rally-x program appears to be on course for failing, and I thought I was perhaps putting out some accurate reasons as to why that's the case. I'm certainly not jealous of a program that's currently failing. In fact, I'm sad that the program isn't growing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by A1337STI
honestly, I'm not sure what is it with you. But you make me feel like completely rescinding my offer now ... 
hope you're happy!  |
I'm not sure what it is with you either. It seems like any criticism, no matter how constructive, results in you insulting me. Maybe I should learn not to criticize you? Are you trying to teach me that I'm not welcome to post in any thread you've posted in if I've got anything critical to say? 'Cause that's probably not going to be a lesson I'm likely to learn by being insulted.
