The Official 2008 Formula 1 Thread!

[MattR]

It really was a snoozer of a race.

[skimonkey30]

glad i was without cable this weekend then

[sperry]

Not sure how long the video will last on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74TZngbIS9I

...was Hammy robbed of his win? Or did he get a competitive advantage over Kimi in the bus stop that he never gave back?

[Joeyy]

I think the bus stop move set him up for the next pass and gave him an advatage. How much do you have to give back? He did fall in behind Kimi but kept his foot stuck in it. Do you think Kimi's block was too agressive?

[sperry]

Originally Posted by Joeyy

I think the bus stop move set him up for the next pass and gave him an advatage. How much do you have to give back? He did fall in behind Kimi but kept his foot stuck in it. Do you think Kimi's block was too agressive?

Even if Kimi's block was "unfair" the rules about driving off-course state that the driver may not "gain a competitive advantage" due to the excursion.

You can argue that shortcutting the chicane even without anyone there to pass would be illegal if you don't slow down enough to give back the time you made up. I think that's why Hamilton got docked 25 seconds. Even if he gave back the position, he didn't give back all the time he gained by cutting out the second half of the chicane, and thus maintained a competitive advantage for the excursion.

Plus, when you watch it, you can see he never really backed off... he lifted just enough to tuck his nose behind Kimi for an instant, then used his momentum to make the pass in La Source. IMO, the only thing that sucks about the penalty is that it doesn't uncrash Kimi's car.

[sperry]

McLaren's appealed the penalty:

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headline...09171019.shtml

I didn't think they had a good case, except apparently the guys on the pit wall asked Race Control if Lewis had properly given back the position and Race Control told them they were good. If that's the case, McLaren might actually win their appeal.

[MattR]

What a fantastic Qualy session at Monza...

[sperry]

Originally Posted by MattR

What a fantastic Qualy session at Monza...

Yeah, this season has been pretty extraordinary... and I thought last season was crazy.

Dave's gonna punch me, but I think Michael Schumacher retiring has been the best thing for the sport in the last 10 years.

[Dean]

No spoilers, but F1 on Full Wets really is amazing. Strategy still plays, but you can really tell the exceptional drivers...

[Nick Koan]

[MattR]

Agreed, I haven't been that anxious during a race in a while...

On another note...I am definitely on the Massa bandwagon this season, I hope he can pull off the championship this season.

[skimonkey30]

Originally Posted by sperry

Yeah, this season has been pretty extraordinary... and I thought last season was crazy.

Dave's gonna punch me, but I think Michael Schumacher retiring has been the best thing for the sport in the last 10 years.

next time i see you I'm punching you

I'm actually really excited to see Vettel end up in a better car than the Toro Rosso though my hopes of him ending up in a Ferrari seem rather slim since they just confirmed Kimi & Felipe through 2010

[sperry]

All I know is that today's race was the best in a long while... not really for any real close racing (Spa had that in spades over Monza), but it was really cool to see Vettel pull off a Schumacher-esque win. I was so fired up for the kid!! I thought for sure Heikki would get him right at the start, but the SC start took that chance away. And while you could argue that it wasn't a tough win, Vettel didn't just win, he drove away from the field and put in a flawless drive. Huge props!

I bet Kimi quits F1 before that Ferrari contract is up, and they'd be idiots not to make a play for Vettel. In fact, I think Vettel may be a better driver for Ferrari than Hamilton or Alonso.

[sybir]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOl_p3gyrD0

[Nick Koan]

[sybir]

Originally Posted by sperry

McLaren's appealed the penalty:

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headline...09171019.shtml

I didn't think they had a good case, except apparently the guys on the pit wall asked Race Control if Lewis had properly given back the position and Race Control told them they were good. If that's the case, McLaren might actually win their appeal.

Looks like FIA went through the whole dog an pony show, made everyone show up, just to say "nah, you can't appeal that."

What a load of horseshit. It's not even that I'm a huge Hamilton fan, it's just crazy the amount of bias that seems to be leaning towards Ferrari over the years.

[Nick Koan]

I dunno. I tend to think it was a fair penalty as Hammilton conceded the place, but not all of the advantage gained.

The appeal dog and pony show, though, was stupid.

[sybir]

Originally Posted by Nick Koan

I dunno. I tend to think it was a fair penalty as Hammilton conceded the place, but not all of the advantage gained.

The appeal dog and pony show, though, was stupid.

Agreed on both counts. However, if what Mclaren stated was true (that stewards confirmed multiple times he was ok to go), then it seems strange...

[sperry]

I think it's obvious that the FIA would have to reverse the penalty if they reviewed the appeal on merit. If the stewards told tell McLaren during the race that Hamilton did satisfactorily give back the position then later enacted the penalty anyway, it *has* to be overturned. So it totally looks like in order to keep from having to say "oops, we f'd up" the FIA is just going to use a loophole to avoid discussing the appeal on merit.

They pulled the same loophole trick to counter McLaren's argument as to why they should review the appeal:

The FIA also rejected McLaren's claim that the precedent of a successfully appealed penalty involving Toro Rosso's Vitantonio Liuzzi last year be followed.

The judges said the Fuji case was not relevant because "none of the parties concerned had raised the inadmissibility of the appeal in that case."

Still in reference to the Fuji case, the ICA added: "the Court was able, in the conclusion of its decision, to declare the appeal admissible, but it did not give reasons for its decision on the issue, as the question was not debated."

So because when they reviewed last year's penalty (that apparently they shouldn't have reviewed), because no one mentioned it shouldn't be reviewable then it's not precedent.

This is some serious legal mumbo-jumbo bullshit. Especially when the next step is to charge McLaren with court costs.

[Nick Koan]

Originally Posted by sybir

Agreed on both counts. However, if what Mclaren stated was true (that stewards confirmed multiple times he was ok to go), then it seems strange...

But from what I've read, the stewards said nothing of the sort. McLaren said that the FIA told them their opinion, but that the stewards still had the power for the final call.

EDIT: now that i think about it, the stewards must be sanctioned by the FIA, so they could be one in the same thing. I guess I was never clear on who they asked in the FIA. From what I read, everyone said that the FIA gave them the okay, but it was no mention if they meant the stewards or not.

[Nick Koan]

Renault's call to Alonso pretty much summed up the race.

"We don't know what the hell is going on, just drive fast"

[MattR]

Originally Posted by Nick Koan

Renault's call to Alonso pretty much summed up the race.

"We don't know what the hell is going on, just drive fast"

Haha. Turned out to be a great race.

[tysonK]

Did it look pretty cool?

[sperry]

Originally Posted by tysonK

Did it look pretty cool?

Yeah it did. The cars under the lights was amazing. They exceeded all expectations putting that race on at night.

[skimonkey30]

they should ban the wheel shrouds during night races so we can see the bake rotors

now that would be hot......literally