Tires?

[sperry]

Originally Posted by cody

The top front holes are larger than the lower and both rear holes. at least through one side of the strut and through the knuckle. The other side of the stut has a smaller hole for the narrow part of the OEM bolt.

And a 1.5" grade 8 fender washer 4mm thick is still much bigger than that hole. Are you suggesting that a bolt w/ a big old washer on it that doesn't even see longitudinal load is somehow going to pull through that hole?

Let me put it this way: as long as the camber bolt can properly seat, and is strong enough to generate the necessary clamping force, it's not going to fail any more easily than the OEM bolt. Or more correctly, if it fails it's because you just crashed the car into something hard enough that you're probably going to be more concerned with bent rims, bent control arms, and deployed airbags than your alignment being out a little because the camber bolt slipped.

Besides, you can just put the aftermarket camber bolt in the lower holes for gross adjustment and use the OEM in the upper for fine tuning if you're so worried about that upper hole size.

[cody]

I'm suggesting that it's an inferior solution to the one I adopted. Can you counter that?

Why would you use a camber bolt in a hole that is larger than that camber bolt was designed for? The cam is just going to spin with little effect on the camber. You want the alignment guy to hold the wheel at the right degree of camber while another tech tightens the bolt that can't support as much torque? It's asinine.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by cody

I'm suggesting that it's an inferior solution to the one I adopted. Can you counter that?

What solution? Doing nothing?

[bigrobwoot]

Thanks John. Those conti's are a lil steep, I'll probably stick with the ones I started with. I'll probably try those ones next, if I'm not happy with these.

[Dean]

I am holding one of the Ingalss bolts in my hand and the design just isn't compatible with that bolt position from an engineering perspective IMHO.

This like almost all aftermarket camber bolts make use of a significantly smaller diameter bolt with an ecentric that just barely fits through the standard round hole.

If you installed it per the directions, the adjusting washer would be swimming in the very large hole on the stock upper hole and only a couple of its teeth would actually have any metal to bite into.

I am not suggesting it would have insufficient clamping force, but that it wasn't really designed for that hole IMHO. The washer is nowhere near 4mm and the minimal contact area might well permit the washer to deflect over time and loosen and/or the entire assembly to slide inboard or outboard.

Not saying the wheel is going to fall off, just that I would not use this bolt in that position.

[sperry]

Dean, try better bolts:



I'm not saying you're better off with them in the upper location, just that they should be just as strong as OEM up there.

...and a lot of this confusion came from me reading "you can't use camber bolts at all in the fronts". I went back and re-read Cody's post, and I agree that it would be better to put the bolts in the lower holes and leave the top bolt alone. But that still doesn't change that I think a proper aftermarket bolt up top would be fine.

[Dean]

Originally Posted by sperry

Dean, try better bolts:

I'm not saying you're better off with them in the upper location, just that they should be just as strong as OEM up there.

...and a lot of this confusion came from me reading "you can't use camber bolts at all in the fronts". I went back and re-read Cody's post, and I agree that it would be better to put the bolts in the lower holes and leave the top bolt alone. But that still doesn't change that I think a proper aftermarket bolt up top would be fine.

Those do look nice... I hope there are more washers for both ends not pictured for them though!!! The bolt head is smaller than the hole it is going in. How much do they add over the stock bolt. Doesn't look like too much. Again, I don't think he needs anything for the front, just one set for the rear should be fine.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by Dean

Those do look nice... I hope there are more washers for both ends not pictured for them though!!! The bolt head is smaller than the hole it is going in. How much do they add over the stock bolt. Doesn't look like too much. Again, I don't think he needs anything for the front, just one set for the rear should be fine.

Those are the H&R bolts. The washer/collar in the picture are backwards... the flat washer goes on the cam side, the collar goes on the threaded side. In person they seem fine for the job... nothing seems like they're going to pull through anywhere when you torque them.

I don't remember how much adjustment I got out of mine, but it was plenty back in the STX days when I was using them before I had coilovers. My current suspension has adjustable slots in the top of the strut... no camber bolts needed. Macro adjustment comes from flipping over the keys in the slots, micro adjustment comes from the top mounts. 'Course I've got both set to max neg camber (around -3.8 IIRC) and I'd like to be able to get to -4 to -4.5 for the R-compounds. But I'd probably start rubbing the struts if I went that far.

[cody]

Originally Posted by sperry

What solution? Doing nothing?

Cute. I only gave one solution to adjusting the front camber beyond OEM limits. I mentioned that it's the one I'm using...

Originally Posted by sperry

Dean, try better bolts:



I'm not saying you're better off with them in the upper location, just that they should be just as strong as OEM up there.

...and a lot of this confusion came from me reading "you can't use camber bolts at all in the fronts". I went back and re-read Cody's post, and I agree that it would be better to put the bolts in the lower holes and leave the top bolt alone. But that still doesn't change that I think a proper aftermarket bolt up top would be fine.

So you're no longer confused right?

[sperry]

Originally Posted by cody

Cute. I only gave one solution to adjusting the front camber beyond OEM limits. I mentioned that it's the one I'm using...



So you're no longer confused right?

Yeah, I just said I had to go back to re-read your post because I had just responded to the whole "it's simply not safe to use the aftermarket camber bolts" comment that I disagreed with. I still contend that proper camber bolts are just fine to use, but I agree that if you're a pussy you can put them in the lower holes instead of putting them in the top holes where god intended for a real man to put them.

[k-dogg39]

Originally Posted by sperry

I still contend that proper camber bolts are just fine to use, but I agree that if you're a pussy you can put them in the lower holes instead of putting them in the top holes where god intended for a real man to put them.

[cody]

Originally Posted by sperry

Yeah, I just said I had to go back to re-read your post because I had just responded to the whole "it's simply not safe to use the aftermarket camber bolts" comment that I disagreed with. I still contend that proper camber bolts are just fine to use, but I agree that if you're a pussy you can put them in the lower holes instead of putting them in the top holes where god intended for a real man to put them.

Yah, I only have experience with the Ingalls style camber bolts. So you've used the H&R's in the top holes successfully eh? And they're designed for use in the rear holes? Do they have different sized sleeves that go over the cam or did you just ignore the slop when attempting to adjust them?

[sperry]

Originally Posted by cody

Yah, I only have experience with the Ingalls style camber bolts. So you've used the H&R's in the top holes successfully eh? And they're designed for use in the rear holes? Do they have different sized sleeves that go over the cam or did you just ignore the slop when attempting to adjust them?

I don't remember specifically since it was 7 years ago, but I believe the H&R bolts had different size cams and sleeves depending on the application. And I don't remember if the front bolts fit in the rear struts, but then again I don't know why I would have tried putting front bolts in the rear anyway.

As far as "ignoring slop"... I'm not sure what you're talking about... even if the cam has room to play in the knuckle, the adjustment is made with a gauge on the wheel, so you can get it close by yanking on the wheel then just use the bolt to push the alignment to the correct exact angle, then tighten the bolt. The angle of the wheel is held by the clamping force of the strut on the knuckle, not by the cam in the bolt.

Theoretically, you could just use a skinny bolt, but then you couldn't use the cam as leverage for adjustment. Hell, some struts just have slots in them making fine adjustment a PITA and camber bolts completely useless, but you would use the top mounts on those struts for fine adjustment anyway.

[cody]

That's what I meant by slop, the cam can play in the moose knuckle.

[WRXlerate]

All of this over a tire recommendation As I believe that is what the thread started as...you guys crack me up
I love it

[bigrobwoot]

I just sit back and watch. An argument between 2 people that know more than me just means I learn a lot

[A1337STI]

Oh my Navigator John Stewart has those snow tires on his WRX. he uses them for Rally cross. their side walls are a bit soft (so comfortable ride !) and they have AWESOME Grip for rallyX / Snow / Dirt. they will feel a bit soft on pavement but that's their trade off. Great tread pattern! if you don't wear them down much before winter you'll be set.