Legacy Mod Suggestions

[cody]

Got this email from a buddy. Feel free to chime in.

Code Blue-
I hope life is treating you well. I need to call you and catch up with you sometime soon.
A buddy of mine just bought a 2000 Legacy outback and was asking me about performance upgrades regarding suspension.
He whitewater kayaks and tends to put a lot of weight in the back of the car while driving rough backroads.
Do you know or have any Legacy enthusiast buddies who would have any suggestions about beefing up the rear suspension?
Is it just a matter of heavier duty struts? Would a sway bar have any impact?
His main concern is bottoming out the suspension and the mushy handling feeling he is having.

Also,
I am regrettably replacing our Impreza later this summer because we are about to outgrow it with a second baby on the way.
It's at 225,000 mi and running strong, but starting to show the effects of being well loved and well used.
In my dream world, I would never sell this car because it would be an ideal candidate for an STI rebuild but that just isn't in the cards.
I think we'll have no trouble selling it but I thought I'd mention it to you in case you or anyone you knew might have any interest in it.
It's probably worth $1500-2000 and has been well-maintained mechanically.

We are replacing it with a 99 Legacy outback that is pretty clean, with a 5 speed and a factory replacement 2.5 l engine with 35k miles on it.
This was one of those cars that had the recalled headgasket...it got a complete engine swap due to head warpage so it should be good to go for a while.
I was going to pick your brain about this car too in regards to sway bars and any other low-hanging fruit in terms of performance upgrades.

Hopefully talk to you soon,

-Whelan

[100_Percent_Juice]

...code blue

[Kevin M]

Good coilovers or minimally lowering springs will help him keep it off the bumpstops with a load.

[Nick Koan]

I put 2 flatwater kayaks on my roof all the time, and drive on dirt roads (though, the dirt roads I've been on with a load were barely worse than a paved road).

Anyway, I agree with Kevin. A good coilover (like my Tein Flex) would work just fine. I would hesitate against recommending springs, but only because its hard to find them without lowering. I would also suggest upgraded struts. But, I would also warn him that the Tein Flexes will make the ride harsher. I used to like it, then it pissed me off, and now it doesn't bother me any more. Oh, and they may lower him a bit too much depending on how bad the roads are that he drives on.

Sway bars actually will help quite a bit in reducing mushiness, but it won't really help with the extra load in the back of the car.

[Dean]

Sway bars first, second for the weight, assuming it is only some of the time, I would suggest spring rubbers. Easier, cheaper and removable/installable in minutes.

Jack the rear of the car up, throw in the rubbers and instant added spring rate without lowering. You can go all NASCAR and drill them and put nylon cord through them for easy removal. If going serious offroading, throw some zip ties around them and the spring to keep them from popping out if you hang a corner in the air.

[cody]

Thanks for the input, Gentlemen. Here's my reply to him:

Hey Whe! Good to hear from you!

I posted your question on the local Subaru forum, here: http://www.seccs.org/forums/showthread.php?t=9384

I'm definitely not onboard with the coilover idea. Coilovers require frequent rebuilds and they almost always make the ride too stiff. I'd only put coilovers on a crazy modified car that I planned to track. I don't run coilovers on my car, and I have been killing it in autoX. I came in 2nd place for the year last year and here are some raw times from the first two events of this year. Note I came in 1st one day and 2nd the other day. The guy who beat me on Sunday was on stock STi suspension too. lol

Saturday: http://www.renoscca.org/results/solo...ound01Raw.html

Sunday: http://www.renoscca.org/results/solo...ound02Raw.html

I do agree that he should definitely start with upgrading the swaybars, preferably with adjustable sways. He'll probably need to upgrade the stock endlinks too if they're plastic. Those are what connect the swaybar to the swaybar mounts on the chassis. The mounts may need to be upgraded too if they're too weak, they did on the early WRX's like my 2003. With adjustment, he'll be able to dial them in after installing them. I soften mine up in the Winter to avoid oversteer in the snow and soften the ride a tad.

In the thread, Dean made an interesting suggestion with those spring rubbers. That might be just the ticket. I'd definitely try it out if they aren't too expensive. Maybe try to find some people who have tried them on Subarus on a forum for info or just pick some up and try them and sell them if they don't work out. They can't cost that much.

If that doesn't satisfy him, he needs to upgrade springs and struts, like I did on my car. Apparently it may be hard to find springs that don't lower him too much, but he needs to research on Nasioc or LegacyGT.com or something, what's available. Race Comp Engineering (RCE) is known to make some really nice springs for the Imprezas and I'd be surprised if they didn't make something good for him as well. Then he'll need new struts and they should both be installed at the same time in order to avoid double labor. The struts for Imprezas in order of good tarmac performance decent to best are KYB AGX (had them and they were fine), Tokico D-Spec, and Koni Inserts. The Konis are what I run now, but they're not recommended for a car that sees a lot of "rally" type driving offroad since you insert them into the stock strut bodies. They helped me get better times in autox and made the car more comfortable at the same time. Really nice ride. I have no idea if this info crosses over to Legacy's though. Maybe find a good Legacy GT forum since I think the Legacy's are all compatible.

After he upgrades the springs and struts, he'll need an alignment (immediately to avoid uneven tire wear). I'd suggest something like zero toe all around, negative 1 front and -.8 rear camber as a conservative, yet better than stock alignment. This is also conservative enough that he won't wear tires unevenly or reduce straight line braking.

In the rear of the car, stiffer sways, springs, struts, even higher tire pressure will cause the balance in a corner to be much more oversteerish, so he'll need to be ready for that and know how to give it a little throttle and steer into the slide to avoid looping the car. If the car oversteers too much, he can soften all of those things in the rear of the car in order to reduce it.

Hopefully that gives you guys some ideas and starting points any way. Let me know if you have any more questions.

Stop making babies, I'd like to go camping with you again this decade.

Cody

[Nick Koan]

Few corrections. The website is LegacyGT.com, LGT.com goes somewhere else. So many people use it as shorthand when referring to the site, but its some German investment group or something.

The rear suspension between the 3rd gen Legacy (00-04 MY), and the 4th gen (05-09 MY) is different enough that you can't share parts. You also can't share those model years with Impreza's from the same eras. Also, I believe the earlier Legacys are sort of compatible with each other and some early Impreza bits (both 1st and 2nd gen models), but it will take some work.

To make a long story short, don't buy suspension bits meant for other generations. Which will suck for his 3rd gen OB, since I don't think there are too many aftermarket parts out there (at least when I had one before my current Legacy).

[cody]

Thanks, Nick. I noticed that too, along with a bunch of other mistakes/confusing statements. I think it's better now.

Edit: and when I said that I think the Legacy's are all compatible, I didn't mean all years of Legacy's. I meant that the LGT, Legacy sedan, Legacy wagon, and maybe even Legacy Outback should all be able to run the same aftermarket suspension given that they are all the same year/generation. So if somebody with a MY 2000 LGT said that the spring they run is perfect for him, it should work on his car too, right?

[A1337STI]

I would say King Springs + AGX Struts. the king springs can raise him up a little bit. which is a great idea for Heavy loads + rough dirt roads. if his current struts are fine the king springs will fit on those too.

[sybir]

They don't make AGX's for that car, only GR2's. I'd need to check on King springs for OB fitment on the 2000-2004 cars. If it's a GT-fitment spring, it's going to drop him quite a bit even if it's taller than "stock".