Installing Wideband O2 sensor

[Dean]

Anybody done this? I have an LC-1 on the way to go with my Street Tuner, and was trying to decide where to put it. I think I have an empty bung on the top of my DP right after the turbo, but wasn't sure that was a good place. Max reccomended temp is 1300 degrees...

Should I go further down into the mid pipe before the cat?

[sperry]

Most people put them in the Uppipe near the turbo end. At least that's where the old Vishnu uppipe's O2 sensor bung was.

[dayofpain]

i did 3,

all right in that bung where most tuners reccommend it.

they all work fine to this day.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by dayofpain

100% of people put them RIGHT after the turbo.

before the turbo the pipe is too hot.

every wideband i have seen goes right in that bung. its exactly why its there.

So that's 100% except for all those people w/ 1st gen Vishnu uppipes that put them in the O2 bung that was provided for specifically that purpose, right?

[Dean]

I don't know about 100% of anybody, but I'm pretty sure the up-pipe bung is for the stock EGT, and if it has two, for an aftermarket EGT gauge. I agree that it may well be to hot, especially while tunning in the uppipe. With a 1300 degree max, that is cutting it awful close.

The extra foot of pipe, and the mass of the turbo probably drop the temps by 100 degrees or so I would think.

[sperry]

I would agree that it's much cooler after the turbo.

However, the original non-flex Vishnu up-pipe had a big-ol secondary bung in it that was certainly for something larger than an EGT. I asked the guys at Vishnu what they used it for and Shiv told me it was for a wideband O2 sensor. It was about 3" from the top of the pipe.

You can kinda see it in this picture, it's got a copper crush washer on it:



Or look at this tiny, old picture. You can see the O2 bung on the outside of the bend in the top of the pipe.:



I'd prove it in person, except I've since replaced my solid up-pipe with a flex-pipe that doesn't have the bung.

[Dean]

Thanks for the pic Scott. I think I'm going to go with after the Turbo to be safe, and because there appears to be a bung there...

[ryan4601]

hey dean...when i had my WB installed with my txs tuner kit they installed it about 6 inches after the turbo in the down pipe. supposedly this is the best place to install the WB. so i figure that your bung is in the right place.

ryan

[dayofpain]

vishnu discontinued that pipe because it was a poor design. the o2 bung being one of the design flaws.

[sp00ln]

I need a wideband. How much did that run you? And do you mind hooking me up with a link for the LC-1?

Oh, and did you hear me rev when I drove by your house at around 9pm last night? I saw a light on... muahaha. sorry. :-P

[Dean]

Originally Posted by sp00ln

I need a wideband. How much did that run you? And do you mind hooking me up with a link for the LC-1?

Oh, and did you hear me rev when I drove by your house at around 9pm last night? I saw a light on... muahaha. sorry. :-P

Best deal on a new one I could find was $199 shipped from one of the Innovate dealers on eBay. So all you are doing is saving the $9 bucks or so Innovate charges for shipping...

Don't recall the reving, but please don't try harder next time.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by dayofpain

yep 100% cause all the fucktards including vishnu that were STUPID enough to put it before the turbo FUCKED up their widebands...

i mean if it was such a wonderous idea to put it before, makes ya wonder why on earth they would EVER change it... and why NOONE else copied them...

proving my point again, vishnu= DUMB
HELLA smart...

That catagorically doesn't make sense. How can you say 100% of people put their sensors after the turbo and in the same sentence say that the people that put them before the turbo fucked 'em up? Is percent now calculated out of 110 instead of 100?

I'm not saying the O2 should be before the turbo, in fact it seems like the top of the DP is a much better place. But you'd make a much better argument if you said "People used to put them in the uppipe before they realize it burnt the sensor. Now everyone puts 'em in the downpipe." instead of "Every last person puts it in the downpipe, and if you think that isn't the abosolutely best place for it you're a fucking idiot."

[MikeSTI]

Originally Posted by sperry

That catagorically doesn't make sense. How can you say 100% of people put their sensors after the turbo and in the same sentence say that the people that put them before the turbo fucked 'em up? Is percent now calculated out of 110 instead of 100?

Originally Posted by dayofpain

100% of people with an IQ above 20 put them RIGHT after the turbo.

before the turbo the pipe is too hot.

every wideband i have seen goes right in that bung. its exactly why its there.

well the IQ above 20 is teh harder part might make a good 80% have installed after the turbo.

my thinking is why not even further back? say closer to the stock O2? I've seen a lot of tuning where they put the WB in just the tail pipe to tune, for ease I'm guessing, but they still seem to work as long as you have exhaust flow

[sperry]

Originally Posted by MikeSTI

well the IQ above 20 is teh harder part might make a good 80% have installed after the turbo.

my thinking is why not even further back? say closer to the stock O2? I've seen a lot of tuning where they put the WB in just the tail pipe to tune, for ease I'm guessing, but they still seem to work as long as you have exhaust flow

Check his post before the "IQ above 20" edit. I'd be willing to agree to his modified statement.

And Mike's right... unless there's a leak in the exhaust, it shouldn't matter significantly where the wideband sensor is installed.

[Kevin M]

Semantical is not a word.

/pedantic bastard mode off

[MikeSTI]

I was adding to the thread with my understanding of how a shop uses a WB in the tailpipe.

Of course this would not be where I would install one myself but I might consider the stock O2 location because the midpipe is easier to get to if you need to replace and because turbo cars run hot there should still be enough heat at that point to obtain info

[Kevin M]

The tail-pipe style widebands used by tuners (at least, the ones I've known personally, Shiv at vishnu and Nate at S-Squared) are heated, just like OEM narrowband units. They are also calibrated for use in that spot- they'd read improperly if used in the downpipe. We could probably debate just how precise the readings from either method is, but since they read consistently, and so few professional tuners have issues with overly rich or lean tunes, it's probably safe to use that method.

[MikeSTI]

I want to say APS gives an extra bung in the up-pipe also...........

[dayofpain]

Originally Posted by MikeSTI

I want to say APS gives an extra bung in the up-pipe also...........

secondary egt.. we already discussed this.

[MikeSTI]

watch the video : LM-101: LM-1 Installation and Setup

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/resources/lm101.php

[Dean]

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

The tail-pipe style widebands used by tuners (at least, the ones I've known personally, Shiv at vishnu and Nate at S-Squared) are heated, just like OEM narrowband units. They are also calibrated for use in that spot- they'd read improperly if used in the downpipe. We could probably debate just how precise the readings from either method is, but since they read consistently, and so few professional tuners have issues with overly rich or lean tunes, it's probably safe to use that method.

Tail pipe wide band calibration is a touch and go thing at best. To do it reliably, you have to do it for each and every car, and all of the cats have to be at full functional temperature, and then in a range that the stock O2 before the cats is accurate, you test and compare, probably at a couple different load/flow rates.

I doubt there is a single accurate calibration number even for two "identical" cats for how they affect O2 readings. And before the CATs is what you care about the ratio because the cats job is to burn up left over hydrocarbonc which is the A/F sensor is reading.

[dayofpain]

nice, after watching 4 of those videos, it says everything i JUST said.

and BTW MOST of the bungs welded after the turbo INCLUDE that stupid copper heat sink washer. hence the reason they put it there.

[MikeSTI]

did you get a chance to watch the video, Dean?

[MikeSTI]

Originally Posted by dayofpain

nice, after watching 4 of those videos, it says everything i JUST said.

and BTW MOST of the bungs welded after the turbo INCLUDE that stupid copper heat sink washer. hence the reason they put it there.

ummm, not really. yes the vedio's do say not to put the bung to close to the turbo (with in 6 inches). I think what Dean really cares about are the temps? at 1300 degrees before readings get messed up and a turbo'd car you would have to move it more down steam then even the down pipe, but before the cat.

so I personaly would move it to the bottom of the down pipe and not the top, and if I was running catless I would them put it in the midpipe

[dayofpain]

Back to the basics.

Have you ever installed a wideband in a car?

where did you put it?

was it the right place?


I have done 3, and ALL are still working to this today.

there is my contribution