This Anybody?

[dknv]

Originally Posted by cody

I honestly think that the fact that I won't usually answer my phone while I'm driving makes me safer than thoe of you that do...even taking into consideration that I've raced from a stoplight 3 or 4 times in my life

Yeah, I'd be a hypocrite to deny I answer my phone sometimes while driving, even when I know statistically it can be dangerous.

Originally Posted by cody

Thanks for the new sig.

Another, 'made me laugh'.

[sperry]

God I'm sick of this conversation. You can try to justify it all you want by talking about stuff that's more dangerous, or by listing off a bunch of "precautions" you take, or by describing how empty the road is... it still doesn't change the fact that you're breaking a well intentioned law for no reason.

The bottom line is this: street racing is illegal because 99.99% of the time it's unsafe. Sure, an abandoned industrial street at 1 am may actually be just as safe as the track (though I doubt the people there have an ambulance and fire crew on stand-by and helmets for the competitors...) but the law has to draw a line somewhere. And that line has been drawn to disclude competition on public streets, *all* public streets. It's a just law... disregarding it as some macho act of defiance makes you look like a tool. Especially since there are safer, legitimate outlets for speed competition, including the drag strip, autocross, track days, etc. It only takes one little oops to fuck up the rest of your life... what if the guy your racing crashes into you? ...what if you blow the motor and your car burns? ...what if someone thinks your cheating and shoots you over a $50 race?

And for the people that can't resist "proving themselves" when someone revs on them... you're an egotistical idiot. I dial 911 when I see retards like you that attach the speed of your car to your sense of self importance. Remember this: going fast only takes money... and there's always someone out there with more money. You *can't* prove anything about yourself when you race "run what you brung", you can only prove how much money you've spent. ...course that sounds exactly like drag racing, which is the lowest form of motorsports. Hell, even monster trucks at least take driving skill.

Grow up. People that actually care about motorsports for the sport rather than for the ego-stroking are tired of you making us look bad.

And finally:

baron =


barren =

[cody]

Originally Posted by nKoan

Ok, I was trying to help you out earlier without directly pointing it out, but its barren, unless of course you mean driving on roads that are ruled by old German nobles.

Also, I've seen you at the track. I don't know if I trust your judgement of whats smart to do on the road or not (btw, thats a joke, since I also spun that day).

I did lack judgement actually...in fact I prefer to blame my judgement than my drivng skill.

[cody]

Lions and tigers and bears...oh my.

[DARKSTI]

wow

[MattR]

I just want to say that none of the silver cars listed at the beginning of this thread are me.My sti's sitting in track trim in the garage, and it's only been on the street while perched on it's trailer. Not Guilty!

I used to enjoy running Virginia City or Mt Rose once in a while, while I never go crazy up there.I just don't enjoy it anymore, It's really unsafe, too many variables out of my control, mostly other drivers...Just ask Kevin. The amount of enjoyment I get out of driving RFR, or any other track is of much greater worth to me.

As far as the Roll Bar thing at RFR...The seccs crew that's been running RFR for over a year now are clearly some of the fastest production (mostly stock) cars that run out there. No one (including ET) have mentioned anything about roll bar rules, but we will see. RFR has been very fortunate with it's safety record thus far, and I know our group has done a great job of staying safe and VERY fast out there.

[sp00ln]

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

Your intentional ignorance of the risks you take, and more importantly force other people to take by your actions, is astounding.

Im not forcing anyone to do anything. Im just questioning what you have against racing on a public road. Even if there's a 0% chance of you endangering someone else.

I agree with all of you guys when you say its dangerous and that there are inherent risks involved, but it goes the same for the track. Yes, it is an added bonus if ambulances are standing by though.

I dont know, I'll drop the sore spot. And sorry for smart remark. I dont know. I just dont feel anyone should judge somone by whether or not they street race. If someone feels to put their life at a greater risk for 8 seconds, then thats their choice. People do it all the time - snowboarding/skiing, skydiving, cliff jumping, football, gymnastics, track drag racing, road racing, etc. Do you guys do none of these things?

However, I tend to believe I'm not outnumbered on this board when it comes to who street races and who doesn't.

And the legality of it - I bet I'm more legal most of the time than most of the people on this board. Sure I tend to speed sometimes in competition against another motor-vehicle, but I still run smog legal. I have a working CAT and I've never removed a cat and not replaced it with another functioning cat. Most of the people on this board would be fined.

As far as this group of motor enthusiast goes, I have the highest respect for you guys. You're well organized, nationally recognized and have a group of SMART people. Even though you guys play it by the books a little too much, I still like ya. I guess that's why I hang around here even though I'm not really wanted.

And shame on you cody for deleting your post where you questioned my sanity.

[cody]

Originally Posted by sp00ln

And shame on you cody for deleting your post where you questioned my sanity.

I honestly don't remember doing any such thing...but I've been drinking...

[sp00ln]

Originally Posted by sperry

And for the people that can't resist "proving themselves" when someone revs on them... you're an egotistical idiot. I dial 911 when I see retards like you that attach the speed of your car to your sense of self importance. Remember this: going fast only takes money... and there's always someone out there with more money. You *can't* prove anything about yourself when you race "run what you brung", you can only prove how much money you've spent. ...course that sounds exactly like drag racing, which is the lowest form of motorsports. Hell, even monster trucks at least take driving skill.

Grow up. People that actually care about motorsports for the sport rather than for the ego-stroking are tired of you making us look bad.

You're a smart guy, though those are some very opinionated statements. I would have thought you could have stated something more, professional?

[sperry]

Originally Posted by sp00ln

You're a smart guy, though those are some very opinionated statements. I would have thought you could have stated something more, professional?

I like to think it's fairly obviously in my posts when I'm wearing my moderator hat, or my opinionated personal hat. That post should be clearly the latter.

For the life of me, I can't understand why people attempt to prove something that's irrelavant in a contest that adds additional risk to something that's already risky.

Anyone that's been around motorsports knows, you will eventually get caught out; you will eventually blow up a motor, you will eventually crash, and you will eventually hurt yourself... all you have to do is drive long enough. When it happens to me, I plan to be wearing the proper safety equipment, on a safe race track, with the necessary people standing by to pull me out of the shit when it hits the fan.

On the street, you're without the additional safety afforded by a proper location. IMO, if you're willing to pile additional risk on to something that's already risky, you are by definition, being stupid. If I told you I'm gonna close my eyes and try to punch you in the face, would you rather I put on a glove or brass knuckels?

[Kevin M]

Originally Posted by sp00ln

Im not forcing anyone to do anything. Im just questioning what you have against racing on a public road. Even if there's a 0% chance of you endangering someone else.

You're potentially forcing someone else to deal with the consequences of your mistakes. How many people have been killed or hurt or maybe just lost a care they really cared about because of someone else's decision to have an impromptu street race with the idiot in the next lane who revved on him? If you were to cause death, injury, or maybe something as slight as a dent in someone else's car, how can you justify your actions as safe or appropriate? Worse yet, what if the guy you race because he revved on you is 17 and doesn't know shit about car control yet, and you watch him bury his car into a freeway overpass, and know that he died because you couldn't bear the thought of backing down, or losing face, even though you are the only one who would ever know about it? Anybody who willingly engages in any contest of speed anywhere but a dragstrip or racetrack is willfully ignoring the potential conqequences of his or her actions. In other words, you are described by the scariest word in the US legal system- negligent.

Originally Posted by sp00ln

I agree with all of you guys when you say its dangerous and that there are inherent risks involved, but it goes the same for the track. Yes, it is an added bonus if ambulances are standing by though.

Yes, there are inherent risks involved in taking your street car out to do hot laps on a racetrack. I would even go so far as to say the bad things that could potentially happen are even more likely to occur to any of us than the risks you take when street racing. But there are huge differences between the set of risks we take on the racetrack and the ones we would take by street racing. The chance of death (to anyone potentially involved) or even significant injury, is pretty minor. The risk of damage to our cars is substantial, but I bet that on an individual basis, every active member of this board knows people who have either wrecked a car or had their car damaged by people street racing or otherwise screwing off on public roads, while few, if any of us, have direct knowledge of someone damaging his own or someone else's car during an organized track day. I think the only incidents I know of myself are a few bent wheels and a cracked windshield from off-track excursions, and Nate's Legacy going into the wall on the back straight at Thunder Hill... while he was at a drift event.

Originally Posted by sp00ln

I dont know, I'll drop the sore spot. And sorry for smart remark. I dont know. I just dont feel anyone should judge somone by whether or not they street race. If someone feels to put their life at a greater risk for 8 seconds, then thats their choice. People do it all the time - snowboarding/skiing, skydiving, cliff jumping, football, gymnastics, track drag racing, road racing, etc. Do you guys do none of these things?

Of course we do those things. We all have done and continue to particpate in activities much riskier than our track and autocross activities. That's part of our point- we're not risking much other than the time and money we've invested into our cars on the track. And far more importantly, everyone involved in the activities and sports you listed- everyone!- is involved and aware of their own risk as a participant. How many inoocent bystanders ever died in skydiving or bungee jumping accidents?

Originally Posted by sp00ln

However, I tend to believe I'm not outnumbered on this board when it comes to who street races and who doesn't.

Quite wrong. While there's certainly a strong minority of people here who have participated in the occasional impromptu stop light race or freeway race, you could easily count on one hand the people here who still do it, and even fewer who condone it. And I don't think anyone else on the board actively participates in street racing or thinks it's a worthwhile pursuit.

Originally Posted by sp00ln

And the legality of it - I bet I'm more legal most of the time than most of the people on this board. Sure I tend to speed sometimes in competition against another motor-vehicle, but I still run smog legal. I have a working CAT and I've never removed a cat and not replaced it with another functioning cat. Most of the people on this board would be fined.

Wow... just wow. Yes, I can't believe that any of us criminals have even dared to suggest that your morals are anything less than saintly.

Originally Posted by sp00ln

As far as this group of motor enthusiast goes, I have the highest respect for you guys. You're well organized, nationally recognized and have a group of SMART people. Even though you guys play it by the books a little too much, I still like ya. I guess that's why I hang around here even though I'm not really wanted.

Actually, I can't think of anything other than the street racing debate that gets any of us really arguing with you. It's fun having a DSM guy around who knows how to play up to the DSM/Subaru rivalry without getting offended or offending anyone else over it. Nobody is universally lauded on any internet forum of any kind, least of all myself, but I don't think anybody here would feel particularly elated if you decided not to post here anymore. Don't confuse dissent with dislike, especially on the intarweb.

[JC]

Originally Posted by sperry

In addition, as the administrator of this site, I feel obligated to make sure to speak up when people glorify or otherwise endorse street racing. I don't want people getting the idea that this club supports street racing, if just for the legal reasons alone.

We all know the real reason we don't want people talking about street racing over here. Just spend two minutes over at the street racing forums and anyone will realize we don't want those kind of people here.

[Ezdno]

Originally Posted by nKoan

If someone is "testing" their car against mine on the street, I usually laugh at them and keep on driving.

That is the beauty of driving the wagon, not many people challenge you on the street, but I do admit, I did smoke the kid in the mR2 because he thought he was a badass.

I haven't tried the autox or track racing, Drag Racing very fast in a straight line has been what our family has done for years. Still to this day you will find two of my uncles out at on every race day they can get.

I enjoy driving this car so much though, the last thing I would want to do is endanger myself or my family racing on the street, where its not controlled, and the real problem is the other drivers.

I see so many of you guys around, I just don't know who is who

[khail19]

Originally Posted by sp00ln

Im not forcing anyone to do anything. Im just questioning what you have against racing on a public road. Even if there's a 0% chance of you endangering someone else.

There is no way to have a 0% chance of endangering others on any public road. You cannot know, without a doubt, that there isn't some pedestrian or vehicle in the vicinity of your vehicle. I don't care if it's 3 AM on the most isolated, industrial road in town, you cannot know for sure that no one else is around. This is why street racing is illegal, and why it is such a stupid thing to part in.

Originally Posted by sp00ln

However, I tend to believe I'm not outnumbered on this board when it comes to who street races and who doesn't.

I believe you are vastly outnumbered. Everyone I know on this board is a responsible adult who has no desire to increase attention on our vehicles from the police, or worse yet, injure or kill someone else due to our negligence.

Originally Posted by sp00ln

And the legality of it - I bet I'm more legal most of the time than most of the people on this board. Sure I tend to speed sometimes in competition against another motor-vehicle, but I still run smog legal. I have a working CAT and I've never removed a cat and not replaced it with another functioning cat. Most of the people on this board would be fined.

This is just asinine. You are comparing the emissions of a vehicle to potentially ending people's lives. If you think it's OK to street race as long as your car passes smog, then you've got a very messed up set of priorities.

[ddub]

2 or 3 could have been me, I've got a silver wrx with a thule ski rack, black subzero rims and greddy exhaust

[AtomicLabMonkey]

Originally Posted by khail19

This is just asinine. You are comparing the emissions of a vehicle to potentially ending people's lives. If you think it's OK to street race as long as your car passes smog, then you've got a very messed up set of priorities.

Re-quoted because Khail makes an excellent point.

[doubleurx]

Street racing, bad
RFR, good.

HMMMM!

[sp00ln]

Originally Posted by JC

We all know the real reason we don't want people talking about street racing over here. Just spend two minutes over at the street racing forums and anyone will realize we don't want those kind of people here.

I wasn't going to reply to anything, but I think this is the best said thing yet.

[MikeSTI]

Originally Posted by sp00ln

But if I'm on the freeway and there's an STI trying to tell me whats up, and if the coast is clear, I'll smoke him.

quoted for comic relief...........keep dream'n

[sperry]

Originally Posted by MikeSTI

quoted for comic relief...........keep dream'n

Actually, I have an inkling that sp00ln's car would give pretty much any of the STi's on this board a pretty good run... IIRC, his previous car was pretty hooked up before a bunch of his stuff was stolen, and the current one is supposed to be faster, is it not?

I think sp00ln needs to bring that thing out to the autocross school in April, I want a ride.

[JC]

Originally Posted by sp00ln

I wasn't going to reply to anything, but I think this is the best said thing yet.

Honestly, I don't know how you can hang around most of those tools. I mean you are a smart guy with a nice car (well for a DSM). I still remember when I went out to the meets and most of those guys have no business modifying a car, let alone "racing" it. The level of discourse literally makes my head want to explode.

Ryan's car is fast. Nick could probably take him, but I think he would walk a stock STi pretty easy.

[sp00ln]

Was nicks HP numbers on pump or race gas? If it was race gas, we could be close on pump.

I dont want to autocross my car, we'll, thats a lie, I do but i just think its way too hard on the car. I need to get another car first before I start doing that to my DSM. I really want to hit up the track in fernley. When will you guys go out there next?

[cody]

I think Fernley might be done for the winter...but it's soooo fun. You gotta try it. My first time was a month ago.

[sp00ln]

...and look what happened to your car...

[cody]

Yah, nobody ever said the track was accident free...but honestly, if you're going to lose control of your vehicle at 100 mph, it's pretty much the best place (aside from a gigantic black top).