This Anybody?

[JC]

Originally Posted by sp00ln

Was nicks HP numbers on pump or race gas? If it was race gas, we could be close on pump.

Pump, I can't imagine Nick ever having the inclination to run race gas.

[doubleurx]

Yes it was on 91 CA pump. I have ECUtek with no ability to switch maps so pump it is. If ECUtek ever gets the switchable maps, I will probably get a race map tuned just for yucks.

[JC]

You know you want a crawford block and a bigger turbo Nick.

[doubleurx]

No! This set up is just fine, thank you............well maybe when the block gets tired, I'll............NO!

[JC]

Haha, I'm sure one of us will get one eventually. Then perhaps you will change your tune (get it? tune?).

[Kevin M]

Originally Posted by sp00ln

...and look what happened to your car...

Ummm, it got dirty? And he pried a few rocks out of his wheels?

[sp00ln]

Originally Posted by doubleurx

Yes it was on 91 CA pump. I have ECUtek with no ability to switch maps so pump it is. If ECUtek ever gets the switchable maps, I will probably get a race map tuned just for yucks.

Those are really nice numbers for pump. I'm looking for about the same... or maybe more after xmas break

[AtomicLabMonkey]

Originally Posted by sp00ln

I dont want to autocross my car, we'll, thats a lie, I do but i just think its way too hard on the car. I need to get another car first before I start doing that to my DSM.

I've never understood this view, which from what I've seen seems to be pretty common from drag racers. Yes, autocrossing will eat up tires and to a limited extent, brakes. But those are relatively cheap wear items and easily replaceable. It is not particularly abusive to the powertrain, provided you don't launch hard off the start line every run.

Every time you drag race, especially if you use sticky tires, you're putting large impact loads into the powertrain which is extremely hard on the components and wears them out quickly. The powertrain is also the single most expensive and difficult to replace system in the car.

Which of these two activities sounds like it will do the most expensive, permanent damage to the car?

[Bob Danger]

Originally Posted by sp00ln

Was nicks HP numbers on pump or race gas? If it was race gas, we could be close on pump.

I dont want to autocross my car, we'll, thats a lie, I do but i just think its way too hard on the car. I need to get another car first before I start doing that to my DSM. I really want to hit up the track in fernley. When will you guys go out there next?

Don't be afraid, because its a DSM. I autocrossed the hell out of the Galant VR-4. I never had any problems... except for that time I almost blew it up, and left oil all over the track.
On second thought don't autocross you'r DSM.

[doubleurx]

Originally Posted by JC

Haha, I'm sure one of us will get one eventually. Then perhaps you will change your tune (get it? tune?).

Engineer Humor!

[sperry]

Like LabMonkey said...

Autocross is probably the single most gentle form of motorsports. There are no drag-launches, there are no top speed runs, there are no extended periods of high rpm (unless you don't bother to shift outta 1st )... Hell, even tire wear is light if you're on properly inflated street tires and smooth behind the wheel. Bascially, autocross is about as hard on your car as a 60 second jaunt around the neighborhood... assuming you drive like a maniac on the street.

The worst thing that might happen is hitting a cone or two... which might be bad if you hit one w/ the FMIC... but cones are usually hit with the front fenders, unless you're MattR, then they tend to get hit by the rear fenders.

[MattR]

Originally Posted by sperry

unless you're MattR, then they tend to get hit by the rear fenders.

Quoted for truth

[Kevin M]

I dunno... I'm of the opinion that autocross is harder on the drivetrain than road racing is. The inputs and demands made of the chassis on a track are less frequent and generally smoother/slower than at an autocross. At least with me behind the wheel, heh. :o Sometimes there are "drag starts" at Solo 2, maybe not a full-on 6000 RPM clutch-dump, but still higher shock loading than a quick street start would have. And if you're forcing the shifter into gears, being very abrupt with clutch takeup, poorly rev-matching downshifts... there's plenty of room for bad things to happen.

Four full-throttle upshifts on the drag strip plus the launch is probably worse on the drivetrain than a whole day of Solo 2, but I still think that in terms of mechanical issues, hot lapping on a track is less stressful on the car.

I never tell people new to autocrossing that it's easy on the car, but I also don't think it's particularly bad. If you have minmal mods (stock classes, or underprepared ST/SP) and something breaks, it's a gray area as far as warranty claims go. You're not an asshole for expecting the dealer to fix what gets broken... but you also can't raise hell if they refuse because you autocrossed IMO. Now, if they just say "oh, you abused the car" in general but don't cite autocross specifically... they're in the wrong. splitting hairs maybe but I think there's an important distinction.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

I dunno... I'm of the opinion that autocross is harder on the drivetrain than road racing is. The inputs and demands made of the chassis on a track are less frequent and generally smoother/slower than at an autocross. At least with me behind the wheel, heh. :o Sometimes there are "drag starts" at Solo 2, maybe not a full-on 6000 RPM clutch-dump, but still higher shock loading than a quick street start would have. And if you're forcing the shifter into gears, being very abrupt with clutch takeup, poorly rev-matching downshifts... there's plenty of room for bad things to happen.

Four full-throttle upshifts on the drag strip plus the launch is probably worse on the drivetrain than a whole day of Solo 2, but I still think that in terms of mechanical issues, hot lapping on a track is less stressful on the car.

I never tell people new to autocrossing that it's easy on the car, but I also don't think it's particularly bad. If you have minmal mods (stock classes, or underprepared ST/SP) and something breaks, it's a gray area as far as warranty claims go. You're not an asshole for expecting the dealer to fix what gets broken... but you also can't raise hell if they refuse because you autocrossed IMO. Now, if they just say "oh, you abused the car" in general but don't cite autocross specifically... they're in the wrong. splitting hairs maybe but I think there's an important distinction.

Your going to tell me that the load on the car in 100 mph sweepers, over curbs, braking from 130 to 50 two times a lap, topping out 4th and 5th gears down long straights, during 5 thirty-minute track sessions are less hard on a car than 6 sixty-second autocross runs on street tires?

Personally, I don't think autocross or track driving is anywhere near as hard the drive train as drag racing... but track driving puts huge demands on the suspension and especially the brakes that you won't see on an autocross course, simply due to the lower speeds.

[Kevin M]

I think the momentary lateral forces in autocross match or exceed those on a track. It's not long, sustained forces that break parts (and this applies mostly to the drivetrain of course) but sharp instantaneous forces. Powershifting fro 2nd to 3rd with 200 whp is harder on it than rolling into it on a dyno with 350 whp. Going to the track is much harder on brakes, but not necessarily on tires. I'm not talking about wear and tear that causes you to replace consumables like brake pads, tires, clutches. I mean stuff getting broken. Stripped gears, busted halfshafts, that sort of thing. What breaks a WRX gear faster- a handful of 7000 RPM clutch dumps, or running around RFR at full throttle? On a Solo 2 course, you shift almost as many times as you would during a lap or two on a track. More importantly, you're doing it between 1st and 2nd gear, which means way more torque is going through the drivetrain than at higher speeds. And the average beginner or intermediate autocrosser is less than silky smooth with shifting when they're chasing time.

In terms of engine wear, I don't think either autocross or tracking is particular hard on a motor since you can't hardly shock load the engine without putting yourself bass-ackwards into cones or weeds. As long as you aren't making more power than the engine can physically handle or doing bad things to the engine management at least. In the absence of detonation, and with sufficient cooling, no motorsport is particularly hard on a fresh, well-maintained modern engine.

[AtomicLabMonkey]

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

I dunno... I'm of the opinion that autocross is harder on the drivetrain than road racing is.

Absolutely not. Extended high RPM operation seen in actual road racing (or circle track) wears out engines very quickly, wearing bearings, fatiguing the rotating assembly, valve springs, valve seats, etc. etc. In any real track car that can develop appreciable lateral grip, oil starvation during sustained cornering forces and heat load on the components also become real issues. This is why you see adaptations like dry sump systems, oil squirters to cool the valve springs, etc. - so that racing engines will survive longer.

[Kevin M]

Okay, engines wear faster on the track. But I stand by my statement that transmissions, halfshafts, and diffs take a much more severe beating at autocross.