My 06 STi

[Kevin M]

Originally Posted by tysonK

When did kevin get more posts then me, weak.

About the time I got a job where I sit in front of a computer all day.

[AWDlaunch]

Originally Posted by sperry

I'm assuming you think there's some benefit to an MBC, otherwise why ask about it?

If I post up "what's the down side to 20" rims", doesn't it imply I think there's an up side to them?

As far as other cars with ECU running MBCs... I would assume one of two things: either there's no good way to reprogram the ECU like there is on Subaru's, or there are people that are looking for cheap ways of tricking the car into making a little more power at the cost of longevity just like there are with the Subaru owners that put MBCs on their cars w/o proper engine management.

Like I said, this topic is pretty well sorted out by the community: MBCs are bad in almost every case, the exception being when you're using one in conjunction with custom programed engine management, and even then the benefits are debatable.

exactly, and i posted whats wrong with boost controllers, didn't i imply there was a downside?
i asked because i didn't know like any other question. all i wanted to know was what causes the ill effects on the subarus just out of curosity. if i wanted to put one on i would have.

[AWDlaunch]

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

Your STi is much more sophisticated than your Neon. Please, please do not buy a boost controller, manual or electronic, for your STi. Get an AP and do it right. Instead of starting a thread, keep reading up on the problem, especially in the EJ20 forum on Nasioc. Some people get away with it, but if I had an STi, you couldn't pay me to use an MBC or EBC.

Of course, if you still want one, Sperry's got an MBC and Unichip he'd sell you for a pack of gum.

how is the impreza more sophisticated than the neon? why would i put a boost controller on if it's bad for the car?

[sperry]

Originally Posted by AWDlaunch

exactly, and i posted whats wrong with boost controllers, didn't i imply there was a downside?
i asked because i didn't know like any other question. all i wanted to know was what causes the ill effects on the subarus just out of curosity. if i wanted to put one on i would have.

Well then I guess there's nothing to say... the real problem w/ MBCs is that they run the car lean. Anything that makes the car susceptible to detonation (overboost, lower effective octane, inadequate fuel, high temperatures) is a recipe for needing a new motor.

[AWDlaunch]

cool thanks, now i understand.

[tysonK]

I told you to be specific, see what happens.

[JC]

Originally Posted by sperry

Without getting into the same argument that's been beat to death a million times on the internet already, lets look at it this way:

Your car comes from the factory with an electronically controlled boost control solenoid managed by a $600 computer specifically designed and tested for years to work properly and safely by engineers that are paid $100,000 of dollars per year and have hundreds of years experience between them. Why would you want to replace that with a $5 ball and spring check valve, and why would you think it would be "better" for the car?

You are an engineer, you know what a terrible argument that is. Engineers are paid to make something extremely reliable and as cheap as is practical in addition to a bunch of other considerations. Their job is hardly to optimize performance. MBCs still suck though.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by JC

You are an engineer, you know what a terrible argument that is. Engineers are paid to make something extremely reliable and as cheap as is practical in addition to a bunch of other considerations. Their job is hardly to optimize performance. MBCs still suck though.

Normally I'd agree w/ you. But in the case of the MBC discussion... the problem w/ MBC's is the terrible history of reliability and consistency. The factory boost control feedback loop is explicitly engineered for reliable boost (since Subaru certainly doesn't want to deal w/ motors blowing up left and right due to overboosting).

Granted, the factory software isn't tuned for performance, but the hardware is certainly very capable at controlling boost reliably. Since we have readily available remapping tools for the ECU, using risky cheap-o hardware to get less performance than the OEM bits can handle is an ass-backwards method of tuning.

Also, as a software engineer (specifically one that's doing a shit load of communications stuff), optimizing performance is easily 50% of what I do. (The other 50% is just getting other people's crappy-ass protocols to work at all... 'cause I'm still at work as I type this...)

[cody]

Before we had engine management, it seems MBC's would cause mid-throttle/full boost elevated EGT's. On race day, people were known to use MBC's to up the boost since, it was said, they weren't as bad for the motor at WOT. But even at full throttle, many a MBC would hold full boost to redline, pushing the turbo dangerously outside it's efficiency range. Grown men cried.

Today we have much more betterer MBC's available (like the Hallman Pro RX that I run) and engine management.

And you don't necessarily need to be tuned for the MBC but you do need to be tuned. I wouldn't have run one if my tuner hadn't recommended it. And having an EGT gauge makes me much more comfortable running it too.

Anybody who doubts the benefits didn't drive my car before and after. The car feels much torquier and boost response is night and day. Honestly, AutoX is where it really shines. 1st and 2nd gears build boost faster with the MBC.

As for the danger of removing the ECU's boost control, thankfully, the ECU can still cut power when you reach a boost threshold that your tuner can set.

AWD Launch, read Ed's (EQ Tuning) posts in this thread. Good info right thar.

[AWDlaunch]

Originally Posted by tysonK

I told you to be specific, see what happens.

well if people would just read and not assume, everything would be cool.

[dknv]

Originally Posted by AWDlaunch

well if people would just read and not assume, everything would be cool.

well, implying, based on what was left unsaid, is one of the funnest things we get to do all day (on the internet) -- but anyway, welcome to the board....

[AWDlaunch]

Originally Posted by dknv

well, implying, based on what was left unsaid, is one of the funnest things we get to do all day (on the internet) -- but anyway, welcome to the board....

yeah but most of the time it becomes flaming.

[JonnydaJibba]

Originally Posted by AWDlaunch

yeah but most of the time it becomes flaming.

That doesn't happen here. Not real flaming anyway.


Well... not usually *cough*lakemonster*cough* Oh sorry I have a tickle in mah throat.

[cody]

I've never been flamed.

[JonnydaJibba]

You especially have never been flamed.

[cody]