Ok, so my car is fast...

[sp00ln]

but I want to start taking it around turns. I've been thinking about taking it out to an autocross event this summer, but I'm really interested in the reno-fernley track. I was wondering what would be the best direction to go as far as handling. The handling upgrade path on dsmtuners.com is http://www.dsmtuners.com/tuning-guid...suspension.php .

I was just curious what your guys' opinion was on how I should go about doing this. It'll probably be a slow upgrade path for me, but where should I start?

Thanks guys.

[M3n2c3]

What have you done so far?

That list is pretty straightforward.

Although, is the chassis really so floppy that it would be worth adding strut tower bars before upgrading springs/struts? Or are they just working in order of simplicity and then slapping some brake upgrades on at the end

[Kevin M]

If it was my 3300+ pound track car, I'd start with wheels and tires, then do all the brake stuff, up to and including a set of Stoptechs. Putting good suspension on a fast car means higher exit speeds, which means higher top speeds, which means more work for the brakes at the next corner. Your car may or may not need big brakes for RFR as it sits (though you DO need better pads and fresh rotors and possibly stainless steel lines) but it definitely will after your suspension improves.

[sp00ln]

Thanks guys.

I was wondering, would I really need coil-overs compared to a good set of springs?

[JC]

Originally Posted by M3n2c3

Although, is the chassis really so floppy that it would be worth adding strut tower bars before upgrading springs/struts? Or are they just working in order of simplicity and then slapping some brake upgrades on at the end

They made a difference on my RS, I can't imagine a DSM is much stiffer.

Originally Posted by sp00ln

Thanks guys.

I was wondering, would I really need coil-overs compared to a good set of springs?

In my opinion? No. Coilovers will handle better if you dial them in right, but for just going to the track to have fun and improve your driving skills, springs AND struts are perfectly fine. There is no reason you can't run it stock (well other than brakes on the track probably) you know.

[Dean]

0. Seat time.
1. Tires.
1.5 Seat Time
2. Sway bars.
2.5 Seat time
3. Springs/shocks/coilovers
3.5 Seat Time

#3 is a compromise. If it is a daily driver, slightly stiffer springs may be a good start, followed by good shocks, but if you want to play with height, and make a pure track car, coilovers are the way to go.

Come out on your stock stuff and learn to drive and how the car handles, and then make your decisions. DSMs aren't bad to start.

Way down the list. Strut bars. The possible exception might be a solid unhinged rear bar for the DSM. If there is a 3 point triangulated bar, even better.

[M3n2c3]

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

If it was my 3300+ pound track car, I'd start with wheels and tires, then do all the brake stuff, up to and including a set of Stoptechs. Putting good suspension on a fast car means higher exit speeds, which means higher top speeds, which means more work for the brakes at the next corner. Your car may or may not need big brakes for RFR as it sits (though you DO need better pads and fresh rotors and possibly stainless steel lines) but it definitely will after your suspension improves.

Yeah. . . I fully intend to put some work in to my brakes before taking it to track. The stock brakes are fine for daily driving, but I want something I can count on at the track.

Dean, I like that list

It's definitely a good idea to start stock. It's certainly helpful to ask others what mods they would recommend you start with, but it's something else entirely to take your car out and discover - as you're knocking over cones - precisely what you want to start with to make the car handle the way you want.

On the ride home after my first autox, I decided that my first change would be springs/struts. The stock RS suspension (at least these days) sits insanely high and rolls like a bitch. Now, having put a little over 5000 highway miles on the coilovers I chose, I feel comfortable saying that unless you absolutely have to have adjustable ride height, save yourself some back pain and just go with a good spring/shock upgrade.

I noticed that DSMtuners had KYB AGX struts and springs from both Eibach and Tein. I think a combination of those would be a good choice when you decide to upgrade - since the AGXs are damping adjustable, the only thing you really lose vs. an affordable set of coilovers is the height adjustment.

[sp00ln]

Thanks guys. I think I'll start out with a set of springs and maybe some sway bars.

When are you guys going out to the fernley track next?

[AtomicLabMonkey]

IMO brakes are priority 1 for most street cars when you decide to take it to a real track. OE brakes are usually drastically undersized for sustained performance use. If you can't stop at the end of a straight, you've just written off the car and possibly yourself.

[Kevin M]

Werd. Especially given the fact that the front straight at RFR is about as fast as it gets in these parts.

[dustinr]

Originally Posted by sp00ln

but I want to start taking it around turns. I've been thinking about taking it out to an autocross event this summer, but I'm really interested in the reno-fernley track. I was wondering what would be the best direction to go as far as handling. The handling upgrade path on dsmtuners.com is http://www.dsmtuners.com/tuning-guid...suspension.php .

I was just curious what your guys' opinion was on how I should go about doing this. It'll probably be a slow upgrade path for me, but where should I start?

Thanks guys.

I can vouch for the fast part...
My wife and I were driving up the backside of McCarran one Sunday and I see this DSM in my mirror with a larger than normal intercooler and SPOOLN on the license plate. So I figure we'll play a bit and I take off up the hill. Must have a large turbo, took him a little while to spool I guess, but once he did he caught up and passed with ease.
Then we got to the left hander and I caught up and passed him. That thing is fast... testament to the 4G63.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by dustinr

I can vouch for the fast part...
My wife and I were driving up the backside of McCarran one Sunday and I see this DSM in my mirror with a larger than normal intercooler and SPOOLN on the license plate. So I figure we'll play a bit and I take off up the hill. Must have a large turbo, took him a little while to spool I guess, but once he did he caught up and passed with ease.
Then we got to the left hander and I caught up and passed him. That thing is fast... testament to the 4G63.

Sounds like brakes are the #1 mod that Ryan needs if he's going to be open tracking the car.

[GarySheehan]

Also, be ready for overheating if you're running high boost and haven't done a lot of long duration thermal management.

Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
www.teamSMR.com

[GarySheehan]

DOH! Double post.

[sp00ln]

Originally Posted by GarySheehan

Also, be ready for overheating if you're running high boost and haven't done a lot of long duration thermal management.

Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
www.teamSMR.com

Thermal Management??

Originally Posted by dustinr

I can vouch for the fast part...
My wife and I were driving up the backside of McCarran one Sunday and I see this DSM in my mirror with a larger than normal intercooler and SPOOLN on the license plate. So I figure we'll play a bit and I take off up the hill. Must have a large turbo, took him a little while to spool I guess, but once he did he caught up and passed with ease.
Then we got to the left hander and I caught up and passed him. That thing is fast... testament to the 4G63.

That was you!! Holy shit! You're nuts! I slowed down after I passed you cuz there is NO way I could have taken that turn at that speed! I was braggin to my friends tho how the evo took that turn with ease tho See that peace sign I have you when I passed

[sp00ln]

Oh, and as far as breaks go - Will I have to replace everything or is there somesort of "race" brake pads I can get to save some money?

[MikeK]

Originally Posted by sp00ln

Oh, and as far as breaks go - Will I have to replace everything or is there somesort of "race" brake pads I can get to save some money?

The general path is:

1. steel brake lines and better fluid
2. Higher temp pads for the track days
3. Bigger calipers/rotors
4. Brake ducts

Just keep going down the list until the brakes don't suck

[sperry]

Originally Posted by MikeK

The general path is:

1. steel brake lines and better fluid
2. Higher temp pads for the track days
3. Bigger calipers/rotors
4. Brake ducts

Just keep going down the list until the brakes don't suck

I would swap #3 and #4. Brake ducts would help even stock sized brakes tremendously.

And Gary's "thermal managment" is making sure your car can handle the added heat of long sessions. Drag cars don't see the extended time on course that track cars see... you might not have any overheating issues on the street or at the strip, but you get out on course on a hot day and you end up fighting heat all day because the FMIC isn't letting the radiator get enough cool air. If your not getting proper air flow through the engine bay, you can end up heat soaking everything and end up running perpetually hot.

[Kevin M]

What Scott said (again) especially if DSMs have an easier time creating working brake ducts than STis and WRXs do.

[sp00ln]

Originally Posted by sperry

Brake ducts would help even stock sized brakes tremendously.

And Gary's "thermal managment" is making sure your car can handle the added heat of long sessions. Drag cars don't see the extended time on course that track cars see... you might not have any overheating issues on the street or at the strip, but you get out on course on a hot day and you end up fighting heat all day because the FMIC isn't letting the radiator get enough cool air. If your not getting proper air flow through the engine bay, you can end up heat soaking everything and end up running perpetually hot.

How would I do these things? Brake ducts? Thermal Managment?

[sperry]

Originally Posted by sp00ln

How would I do these things? Brake ducts? Thermal Managment?

If that was an easy question to answer, then race cars would be a cinch to build. I'm still dealing w/ that crap myself: I've got no clue where to locate my brake duct inlets now that I've got FMIC pipes in my fog light buckets.

[sp00ln]

Originally Posted by sperry

If that was an easy question to answer, then race cars would be a cinch to build. I'm still dealing w/ that crap myself: I've got no clue where to locate my brake duct inlets now that I've got FMIC pipes in my fog light buckets.

So, should I try to run some small dryer hoses from the front air damn near the brakes?

What should I do about keeping the engine cool? Whats the best radiator fluid to use? I've been thinking about adding some "wally wet"? to the mixture, but if you guys can recommend anything, that would be cool.

Thanks.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by sp00ln

So, should I try to run some small dryer hoses from the front air damn near the brakes?

What should I do about keeping the engine cool? Whats the best radiator fluid to use? I've been thinking about adding some "wally wet"? to the mixture, but if you guys can recommend anything, that would be cool.

Thanks.

Here's someone's setup.... mine was similar but used the foglight buckets for intakes... I have actually been contemplating the NACA ducts in the bumper just like this Z28.

http://home.earthlink.net/~jonaa/Brakeducts.html

[Kevin M]

Originally Posted by sp00ln

So, should I try to run some small dryer hoses from the front air damn near the brakes?

What should I do about keeping the engine cool? Whats the best radiator fluid to use? I've been thinking about adding some "wally wet"? to the mixture, but if you guys can recommend anything, that would be cool.

Thanks.

and from Scott's thread:

Originally Posted by sp00ln

Thanks, I think I'll take your advice. Will a 70/30 water to antifreeze mix dry up fast, or will it be ok? And if I keep an eye on my EGTs, will that be a good thing to judge whether or not my engine is doing ok?

My tune (as far as a/f and the sort) is fine. Its just a constant 20min or so of 200+ horsepower over stock engine conditions that concerns me.

Sorry for highjacking your thread scott... I'll try to keep this in my thread Are you bringing your car out to the meet this thursday?

I've got zero first hand with building brake ducts, so I'll leave the advice on that to others, except to say that pretty much any brake ducts are better than no brake ducts.

As for antifreeze, I don't know if one is really better than another. Pick one that's meant to work with aluminum engines and heads and you'll be fine. Also remember to buy distilled water instead of using tap water. And Summit sells both Water Wetter and Purple Ice. I'm a Redline fan since I used to be able to pick it up directly from the refinery in Benicia.

Monitoring EGTs is a good idea, but oil temp and pressure are better indicators of engine health. If oil temps are up much from normal street driving when ont he track you'll want to plumb in some sort of oil cooler. and if you have the right amount of oil in the system and still see any pressure drop, than your engine has problems somewhere. As was mentioned by cory in the tap/knocking sound thread, once your OEM oil light comes on you're probably fubared, but an oil pressure gauge might be enough to save you from tearing down your motor if something is going wrong.

[Kevin M]

Originally Posted by sperry

Here's someone's setup.... mine was similar but used the foglight buckets for intakes... I have actually been contemplating the NACA ducts in the bumper just like this Z28.

http://home.earthlink.net/~jonaa/Brakeducts.html

That rules! I will totally try that next time I have a car that is underbraked.