Falken Azenis St 115 or Sumitomo HTR +

[Wedge666]

My wife has a 2002 WRX and we are finally getting around to replacing her tires and wheels. We've decided on the wheels already, they will be 17 x 7 but we have some issues on tire choice. These are going to be for almost solid summer/dry weather use as we will get some snow tires for the winter to mount on the stock rims. We want more performance out of the setup but don't want horrible wear or bad tread noise. We were pretty much set on the Azenis St 115's after reading through the board but when we went to a couple of stores, we were told that they had had problems with tread life. Scott, we know you have the exact tires we are looking at 225/45R-17 and wanted to know how far along you are with them in terms of mileage and how things are going. Does anyone else have input on this?

Thanks in advance for any and all help with this!

[JC]

Well the sumitomos are all seasons. There's no reason to get all seasons for a summer only tire. I would spring for Kumho MXs, but the Falkens are a solid choice.

JC

[doubleurx]

I have the falken ST-115 in a 235/40/17. I like them all though they are probably a little more tame than the Kumho MX. So far they seem to be wearing OK. For the price they seemed to be the best option when I was looking.

[Kevin M]

Best guess is that the supposed tire-wear problems were caused by bad alignments and poor wheel choices for that particular shops customers. I don't really trust places like that to always have proper info.

Anyways, here's another vote for the Falkens. I would avoid any Sumitomo tire.

[JC]

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

Best guess is that the supposed tire-wear problems were caused by bad alignments and poor wheel choices for that particular shops customers. I don't really trust places like that to always have proper info.

Also keep in mind most tire shops sell to people who expect 80k miles + out of their tires. If I get 30k out of mine I'm happy.

[Kevin M]

Originally Posted by JC

Also keep in mind most tire shops sell to people who expect 80k miles + out of their tires. If I get 30k out of mine I'm happy.

I would to, except for the fact I'm on S03s, and getting 30k on those meant I wasn't using them right. I'm thinking of going with the ST-115s myself on my P1s though, since I have fresh GSD3s on my stock wheels right now for track and autocross, and those will be replaced with MXs or something similar later.

[JC]

I said IF. Hasn't happend yet. I think my RE92s might have, but they don't count. :wink:

[Kevin M]

Originally Posted by JC

I said IF. Hasn't happend yet. I think my RE92s might have, but they don't count. :wink:

Haha, good point. I think I got 25k or so out of my first set of S03s, but that was while I was commuting to Vishnu everyday, and didn't make any track days on them.

[MattR]

I too run the ST 115's, and love them. I haven;t had them long but they are a great all around tire.

[tysonK]

Well I have the Kumho MX's on my car.

I use these tires on the street and Auto-X so they see A LOT of hard use. I have easily over 50 auto-x days on these tires, and they seem to hold up very well. My front tires were much much more wore down on them before I rotated them but the rears were near 85% when I rotated, I waited too long, woops! But the rears did hold up well, although they did not see the abuse of the front tires.

I would venture to say these tires would be a great summer tire for performance and wear. Having only a couple days in solid wet condtions I can't attest to their all out water performance but they did do well on those days!

PM for other info.

[Dean]

I guess my question to you before we reccomend something is other than summer use, what are your expectations for treadlife, and what budget are you looking at? Also, are you planning on autocrossing or tracking the car on the tires in question?

Tread life is mostly inversely proportional to traction. And often more traction is more expensive and might be noisier.

[doubleurx]

Originally Posted by Dean

I guess my question to you before we reccomend something is other than summer use, what are your expectations for treadlife, and what budget are you looking at? Also, are you planning on autocrossing or tracking the car on the tires in question?

Tread life is mostly inversely proportional to traction. And often more traction is more expensive and might be noisier.

Dean, with that in mind, how are the st-115's for autocross. Are they Ok or after 10 minutes of driving are you basically in drift mode? What tires do you use?

Just curious

[khail19]

Well I've had the HTR+ before, and I just got the ST-115 recently. I would go for the Falken if you don't need the winter capabilities of the HTR+. They are a decent all season tire, but I think the Falkens handle better in the dry, and they are very quiet. I just autocrossed on them yesterday and they gripped a lot better than I imagined they would. If you are going to autocross regularly though I would spring for the Azenis Sport or the Kumho MX.

[Dean]

Originally Posted by doubleurx

Dean, with that in mind, how are the st-115's for autocross. Are they Ok or after 10 minutes of driving are you basically in drift mode? What tires do you use?

Just curious

I would expect ST-115s to be an OK to good autocross "Street Tire", but not great. The Azenis Sports are the "Street Tire" for Autocross classes requiring them, followed by the MXs, S0-3s, and other Max performance Summer tires. Of course other options exist for the DOT Race tire classes.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by Dean

I would expect ST-115s to be an OK to good autocross "Street Tire", but not great. The Azenis Sports are the "Street Tire" for Autocross classes requiring them, followed by the MXs, S0-3s, and other Max performance Summer tires. Of course other options exist for the DOT Race tire classes.

I've got a set of Azenis ST-115 and Azenis Sports in 225/45/17. I race on the sports and drive on the street on the ST-115s. In direct comparison, the ST-115s can't hold a torch to the Sports for handling, and the Sports haven't got anything on the ST-115's for street/touring.

The Sports are pretty much a race tire.... very agressive compound, very stiff sidewalls, and a slick-like tread pattern that doesn't handle water all that well. The Sports are made with one thing in mind: tons of dry grip on smooth pavement... everything else is out the window. They're harsh, noisey and will wear out very quickly. My last set lasted for about 100 track miles and 15 autoX events. They would have lasted longer but I ran that 100 track miles with *way* too much toe-out on the car, and really scrubbed the bejesus out of 'em.

The ST-115's are *awesome* street tires. They're made with special "micro-bubbles" in the rubber to help absorbe noise. They've got huge water channels to give them great wet traction. However, they have soft side walls (part of what makes them so quiet) and the compound isn't that agressive. (I'd still consider them a "high performance" tire, and won't expect to get 100,000 miles out of 'em, but at the same time they've got plenty of grip for the street.) I don't know how they'd handle snow since I've got dedicated snow tires. Bottom line: the ST-115's are very quiet and smooth, seem like they'll last a long time, and have more than adiquate grip on the street and in the wet.

The best part of owning both of these tires: they're cheap! At about $100/tire (give or take) these tires will save you money compared to the equivalent tires made by other manufactureres. For example a set of Bridgestone S03's which handle on the track almost as good as the Sports, and just about as well behaved on the street as the ST-115s cost $80/tire *more*... and won't last nearly as long as a set of ST-115's for the street paired with some Sports for the track.

So if you're looking for a good "high performance" street tire, and are willing to give up on the ultimate traction you'd get from a "track/race" tire, I don't think you can go wrong with the ST-115's. For the price, you can't get a quieter, more comfortable tire that handles as well in the dry and the wet.

FYI: My roommate's got a set of these on his BMW in 235/45/17, I've got a set on my Prodrive P1's in 225/45/17, Matt's running some 235/45/18's on his STi and Khail's running 225/45/17's on his Suby too.

[MattR]

Originally Posted by sperry

FYI: My roommate's got a set of these on his BMW in 235/45/17, I've got a set on my Prodrive P1's in 225/45/17, Matt's running some 235/45/18's on his STi and Khail's running 225/45/17's on his Suby too.

And my sister has them on her Mercedes C230. They really are my favorite street driving tire.

[Wedge666]

Thanks to everyone for their responses. We have decided on the Falkens and are looking forward to playing with them. Thanks for the help, this board rocks.

[khail19]

Good choice, you won't be disappointed with them.

[AtomicLabMonkey]

Originally Posted by Wedge666

Thanks to everyone for their responses. We have decided on the Falkens and are looking forward to playing with them. Thanks for the help, this board rocks.

Glad to see you made it onto the board...

[sperry]

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

Glad to see you made it onto the board...

Wait is this Scott? I should have guessed... Loomis + Wedge...