Rally Car Repair Plan: feed back

[A1337STI]

Howdy!

well as most of you know, i have a lil 93L full stage rally car. and its Daily Driven by me. well the lil guy has started to develop a gaggle of problems. and i'm trying to come up with a smart repair plan.
the issues:

Brake lines are rubbing on struts and wearing down
brake feel is gone, and brakes over heat (9.3" rotors 22 mile down hill stage.... its gonna happen)
Motor acts like i'm on the rev limiter , at 2K (Mostly when its cold, i think fuel delivery issue)
Fuel economy / performance drop off (Compression test showed 140 , 90 , 130, 135)
Coil Overs have a slight horizontal movement where one tube slides inside the other (about the spring perch area) and they make a loud noise when i go over uneven surfaces really slowly
Trunk release stopped working
Gas Tank has a few large Dents, and a some scrapes
Open Diff 1 tire fire .... is lame

I figure #1 steel braided brake lines , Porter field pads and shows R4 compound (seems to be the only company who makes a Brake Shoe for the lame Drum brakes i have in the rear, brake upgrades not allowed in Nasa / RA stock classes) Probably super blue, Wilwood EXP 600, or Castrol SRF fluid.

The coil overs are still under warranty (although i did 1 rally on them) I'm going to contact Ksports, and send them back for inspection / rebuild

Nick.C (saabaru driver from last autoX) donated some scrap Lexan from an old sign we are going to cut down and figure out how to attach for a fuel tank shield. I will also probably try and protect fuel and brake lines.

I'm not really sure what i should do about my motor issues... My main idea is having my spare 1.8L torn apart, cylinders honed, head work done, rebuild .. maybe get the fuel injectors 'freshened up' and get a new fuel regulator , maybe an adjustable one. the car is ODB-I so I have been unable to come up with anything for tunning.

I want an LSD, but i DD this car to work, and i drove it 600 miles round trip for my last rally and 300 miles round trip for my last rallyX. so Helical i'm thinking (love the brake and gas trick with those too) OBX

I'm allowed to piggy back ECU, reflash my stock ECU , Modify the elements that control fuel delivery ,and i can do a full exhaust if i retain the factory exhaust manifold I have to keep a Cat. currently i have a 1.75 to 2" reducer a 2" high flow cat from summit, 2" straight pipe all the way back to a cherry bomb. (US Made and only $12.95 ... its too loud but until someone donates a stock WRX muffler i'm keeping it on )

My next rally is June 21st I could just fix my 'fuel cut off?' issue , brakes and suspension and call it good. or maybe i should really go for an LSD + fresh motor.

So far from what i've gathered in other threads My motor options are AIMs ($1,000 ish ) or DB Tuned. ($2,000 ish) . C&C for fuel injector / regulator fix ups . No one for ODB-I Tuning
better order of fixes? better places? lmk

[Dean]

You need to fix the brake hose interference problem even with new lines. The easiest way to do this often to rotate the soft line in it's 6 point captive mount at the hard line. This is very easy to do. People do not think about that orientation when they tighten them up or that when the suspension compresses, they move often not the way you would expect!

Assuming they are inverted monoshocks, they need new bushings between the two housings. This is a wear item on inverteds and part of a rebuild. You will likely need to rebuild rally shocks annually if not more often. Maintenance on them will reduce that.

What pads are you using? Titanium shields and different pads might resolve fade. EBC Reds come to mind.

Fab a tank guard/skid plate and/or buy a used tank and cut the bottom/sides out of one of them and use as a basis for the skid plate reinforcing as needed.

What can you pick up a low millage motor from a wrecker for?

Any stock LSDs that will fit? Again, a wrecker will have those cheap.

[sperry]

I dunno about EBC Reds... those will fade faster than the EBC Greens! The reds are their most streetable pads, I was going to put them on Lisa's Saab until I found a better price on the OEM pads. Did you mean EBC Yellows?

I actually think the plan for R4's + SS lines (properly installed to prevent any rubbing) + good fluid is a great way to combat brake fade, and still have a streetable setup for inter-stage driving.

I dunno how much help lexan will be for guarding the tank... I would think that anything hitting hard enough to dent the tank will still dent the tank through the lexan? But sheet metal probably isn't going to be much stronger (though it won't crack), and will weigh more... so I guess lexan is better than nothing, especially if you can do it for cheap.

I wonder how hard it would be to switch to a reflashable OBD-II ECU with you existing engine harness? Can you open source reflash a newer Impreza L/RS ECU? That might be a cheaper way to get engine management. Then again, if you just pick up a low-ish mileage long block from the dismantlers as a primary then retire your flakey motor as a spare, you don't really need EM, since the motor will still be stock.

And, there are no stock LSD's for FWD Imprezas... in fact, after further thought, how can you put an LSD in a FWD car if there's no separate fluid for the front diff? Are there LSD's that will be happy in normal gear oil? I know the STi 6MT has a separate case for the front diff because it can't share the other gear oil. I gotta figure the LSD setup is going to have to be something specific for rally, and expensive.

[ScottyS]

You want a stock Turbo Legacy muffler (twin-tip)? I will donate one.

That's a 1.8, right? I would just start stashing motors and run them until they go and then drop in another one. I don't see the point in spending a whole lot on building 1.8's.

I don't know if tuning is advantageous or not with that motor, but there are ways to "tune" the OBD-I turbo Subies, so it might apply to the NA ones too. My 1991 ECU's have an add-on slot for an EEPROM chip, and a company in Vancouver is developing tunes for the 22T, my version for a "Stage 2" is in the mail. They have the ability to program a chip that goes in the factory upgrade slot, it's just a matter of getting the maps right. This has also been done in the past for EJ20G OBD-I setups.

I would go in this order:

Fix rev limiter (is it in limp mode or something? Reset ECU/pull codes)
Fix brakes, you can always wrap the brake lines in something rubber at the contact points if you can't move them (like fuel hose)
Protect gas tank
Fix suspension
Look for 1.8's to stash, change as needed
Get LSD

[AtomicLabMonkey]

Originally Posted by Dean

You need to fix the brake hose interference problem even with new lines. The easiest way to do this often to rotate the soft line in it's 6 point captive mount at the hard line. This is very easy to do. People do not think about that orientation when they tighten them up or that when the suspension compresses, they move often not the way you would expect!

Also check line interference/extension while steering lock-to-lock.

If it's a minor problem, you can usually resolve it with some creative zip-tie work. Just make sure that the zip-tie itself isn't going to wear the line.

[Dean]

They changed colors on me... Blue is now the endurance pad. It used to be red.

I think using another tank and putting some ultra high density foam between it and the real tank would work well, but what do i know. Other Subaru Rally teams must have the answer for this.

Lexan is medium to high velocity impact resistant, but not low speed or wear resistant really and has little structurally strength. It deflects way to much for that purpose I think and can be gouged/ground/chipped away fairly easily. I believe a good drag over a sharp rock and it would be toast.

[Kevin M]

I-Speed can reflash '99-'01 RS ECUs, and there is opensource for '05+ 2.5 liter ECUs, but other than that you really have no options except piggybacks. Rallitek is supporting the PP6 pretty well, and they should be willing to help you out quite a bit to try to tune the 1.8. I wouldn't bother with much else as a piggyback at this point though.

The FWD gearboxes are different than AWD, and I don't think the OBX diff will work, but I could be wrong there. It's not a clutch type so it will be happy with whatever gear oil you are using if it does happen to fit.

I would go with what Scotty said and just grab every running 1.8 engine you can come up with, fix the external leaks if any, and consider them wear items. Other than a full exhaust and a hybrid intake, there's nothing you can do that would make a real difference.

The brake plan sounds good to me. Porterfield (or their AKAs) will make any compound in any standard brake pad/shoe configuration for a decent price. also make sure your rotors aren't wearing down. They're super cheap (like $18 each at NAPA cheap) so I'd grab a pile of those and every time they lose a few mm in cross section, scrap them for new ones instead of turning them.

The limp-mode issue sounds like a bad sensor, probably MAF but could be IAC and/or TPS or something like that. Try just swapping over the spare motor as soon as you can patch the oil leaks and see if it goes away.

I have an old OBDI fuel tank I'll sell you cheap if you want it. Dent free and the pump works fine. Also it will enable your future AWD swap should you decide to do that.

Oh, the trunk release- look at the latch on the trunk, there should be a little lever sticking out. Make sure it's down.

[A1337STI]

Rotating the existing brake lines. ... Nope i hadn't thought of that I'll check that out when i replace the lines. I don't really feel comfortable keeping the existing worn lines in there. and new lines are like 125$ shipped. Any harm in wrapping new Steel braided lines in something , just in case they rub?

Currently i'm on Napa true value brake pads and Shoes I was using Wilwood 570 fluid, but i managed to turn that really dark. I know my pads suck but before my rally coil overs the car was super tight and i didn't want to kill my ability to LFB+Gas to lock up the rears. My big issue is finding Shoes for the rear.

Yes they are mono tube Inverted Struts (how did you know?) cool so that should be a minor / easy fix for them?

could i just hit a sample of the lexan with a hammer for any sort of test

LSD, According to my Subaru Service Manual the FWD and AWD use the exact same Front Diff.

But they are splined slightly different where the half shafts connect. ( i have both styles of half shafts already, and they have the same spline where they connect to your spindle assemblies) , I've also read that the old L 5 speed, Interchanges with a WRX. I know the same half shafts fit in (Ansel has a wrx 5 speed lying around at his house) We were planning on opening up his 5speed, and my spare FWD 5speed to ensure the front diffs do indeed swap, but we haven't yet. My spare tranny is from a 94, and has the exact same output splines for the half shaft as a AWD 94L, or a 2005 WRX for that matter. (the half shafts interchange!)

Free Muffler! Hell yeah please i'll trade you either a 6pack or my cherry bomb. is that muffler 2" In ? my cherry bomb is just too damn loud, it makes my ears ring a lil bit and i haven't bought a com system yet....


when my car is Acting like its hitting a rev limiter , its not i think its fuel cut off i just describe it that way.. when its doing it in gear if you clutch kick it , it usually revs to red line and you can murder the clutch to avoid the rpm range where it won't run to drive forward (didn't want to block traffic)

[wrxkidid]

could the limiting type issue possibly be a fuel filter issue or something of the sort?

[cody]

There are SS lines that are coated with silicone. I forget the brand. FWIW, Jamie Thomas actually gave the EBC reds great reviews on her rally car. But nobody believes her.

He already changed the fuel filter.

[A1337STI]

550-$600 is the best i'm seeing from a wrecker. maybe 100-200 from a buddy or even cheaper .. But i'm not quite capable of doing the swap myself. and i'm on a big project @ work and really only have weekends (and apartment parking space to work in) to try a swap... I could maybe use a friends garage and just man up and put in 20 hours and get it done ...

I'll hit up Rallitek about the piggy back. is that going to be like under $300 ? under $600? hmm... yeah if i can find a motor that's doing +/- 3 of 140 That would really mean no point in doing a full motor rebuild. That's a really good plan.


Should i try and leak down test my current motor and see if its only a head issue?

I really want an LSD, but mostly because i got my car stuck in some ruts on the 2nd rally of High Desert Trails. sweep pulled me out and i passed sweep to avoid a DNF, but i ran a stage time of 30 minutes, instead of an 8.5x type time.. got 2nd in the first rally, missing first place by 12 seconds with a total time of 33 minutes 30 seconds over 4 stages. A healthy motor would have made that up for sure.... Or not smacking into a berm so hard i nearly got stuck. or any of my 100+ mistakes... ... motor is easier to fix

I suspect the car would be 3 seconds faster with an LSD as i have to launch with a very light throttle foot to avoid hearing my rev limiter but not actually moving anywhere...

Brakes #1 Priority. probably order them tomorrow !
Strut rebuild .. ( I could see needing 2 rebuilds a year i drive them a lot)

[Kevin M]

Honestly, after you've done it once or twice you can change an Impreza engine in under 2 hours if you have a lift or A-frame. It's pretty straight forward.

Regarding the diff, if you only need to change axle stubs to use an AWD front diff, then you can use the OBX diff, provided the stubs are class legal. If so, that would probably be the one thing you can do (other than $$$ coilovers) that would really make a big difference for the car's performance.

[Dean]

Almost all stainless lines are in vinyl sleeves, but you still have to route them correctly to avoid rubbing. Anything you "wrap" them in will fail or cut a tire, or whatever.

EBC Blues are the new Reds.

The swap costs the same in $s or time no matter which engine you go with. If those wrecker prices are for a full long block, I think you have your answer.

Your shock manual should give you the rebuild procedure. Parts can be tough to get depending on where they are made. DO NOT RUN THEM floppy. You will damage the damper which means a more expensive rebuild.

[ScottyS]

Messing with engine management is likely going to be waaay more trouble and expense than it is worth on a NA 1.8.

[A1337STI]

aah. sounds like i should just find a motor with good compression, or do the minimal rebuild stuff.

Dean i called Ksports They will be rebuilding them under warranty , even though i told Ksports i did a rally on them now that's an awesome warranty!

Group-S $475 for porterfield pads, shoes and Steel Braided lines. good deal? okay? any place else to check?

[Dean]

Originally Posted by A1337STI

aah. sounds like i should just find a motor with good compression, or do the minimal rebuild stuff.

Dean i called Ksports They will be rebuilding them under warranty , even though i told Ksports i did a rally on them now that's an awesome warranty!

Group-S $475 for porterfield pads, shoes and Steel Braided lines. good deal? okay? any place else to check?

For the 1.8, yes. If you can get a decent long block for under 2K with all the timing and any other extras on it, you are way ahead of a rebuild. Remember if you rebuild, cost of full gasket kit, oil/water pumps, timing belts, idlers, etc...

Sweet deal on rebuild!!! you should still make sure you know the maintenance procedures. Those bushings last way longer if cleaned and regreased regularly.

Brake stuff sounds high... Google shopping, amazon, ebay...

Looks like only off the shelf high performance pads/shoes are Porterfield R4 or R4S. A super quick without part numbers search shows the former are $130-160, later $70-80 per end. lines are about $100 for both ends. Occasionally Porterfield will give better prices directly to racers. Call and ask. Ramble off every car club and sanctioning body you can think of that you are associated with and ask for stickers...

[cody]

Stickers!!! I want some too!

If you do order from Gruppe-S, make sure you call and talk to somebody to find out if stuff is in stock. If it's not, multiply their lead time by 2-5 times for a realistic lead time. That was my experience anyway. Also, you may be able to talk them into throwing a couple cans of ATE fluid in. Check Nasioc too, they have good deals on there sometimes.

[A1337STI]

thanks for the tip cody. I hate buying stuff before a rally , not getting it, and coming home to find it on my door step. (K-sports before prescott) oh wells. hehehe

About my Ksports, my car is CRAZY oversteerish with -3.5 front and -2 rear. i could dial back on the front some, but i don't really want to lose cornering. I asked Ksports about swapping springs and they will gladly (sell) me some other spring rates. i think $90, they said they would install them for me and mail me back my (spare). I'm 6K 5K on coil overs designed for the AWD version (100 lbs ish extra in the rear?) So i'm thinking of going either lighter in the rear, or stiffer int he front. putting a small zip tie around the inner tube, resting on the outer tube, it appears that the zip tie went up to almost the very top. making me think i used full travel. (or the zip tie was going up with momentum and slide up further ???)

but i'm thinking of going up to 6.5 or 7K any ideas on which i should do ? either way i could swap springs around afterwards...

[Dewey]

Is your trunk release really sticky or does it feel like it works fine? If so, you should spray the parts in the trunk with WD40 and some silicone spray. Mine seized up, and I sprayed them. Now everything is much better, except for the fact that i broke my damn lever by pulling on it too hard when it was seized.

[van]

If you need to put in a new engine I can help too, we can have it done in my garage in a day.
Just in case it comes down to it.

[Dean]

Those spring rates sound about right for dirt, but soft for tarmac. You want to use full travel in the dirt with minimal bump stop impact. You would know if you were bottoming out too much.

What do you have in the way of sways? I would be tempted to soften or disconnect the rear based on what you describe and maybe drop the rear to 1.5 or 1.0 degrees of camber but I am not a dirt expert.

How are each end of the car wearing tires?

[ScottyS]

There's a dude in Tahoe that keeps posting subie engines on Craigslist, he had a lower miles 1.8 for like $800. He's clearly parting out wrecks or something.

[A1337STI]

thanks Van It might come down to that, I'm not sure if motor work is still in the budget. i found a bad A-arm bushing and torn boot on my brake caliper i also have to fix now.

I've tried disconnected the front sway at rally crosses and it really hurt my times (although felt okay). good to know about the travel. sounds like i'm about perfect. maybe i'll only up the front .5K or just dial back on the camber.

I'll have to hit up the craigslist 1.8L guy

you can't physically pull up on the trunk release, but the key part works. i'll try spraying it. If its cheaper i'll just convert to some sort of locking hood/trunk pin from summit. (assuming its class legal)

[Dean]

Originally Posted by A1337STI

I've tried disconnected the front sway at rally crosses and it really hurt my times (although felt okay). good to know about the travel. sounds like i'm about perfect. maybe i'll only up the front .5K or just dial back on the camber.

What bars do you have? And I would expect disconnecting the front bar to make the car slower, that is why I suggested doing so to the rear based on the handling you described.

Unhooking the front does many bad things due to the Subaru geometry which just creates a time sucking badness.

Unhooking the rear should allow both tires to maintain better contact and reduce effective spring rates hopefully eliminating some of your "oversteerish" tendencies. Try that first and then maybe reduce rear camber if you need a little more stick on that end.

Are your coilovers bump and rebound adjustable, one of those, or a combined knob that affects both

[sperry]

Originally Posted by A1337STI

thanks Van It might come down to that, I'm not sure if motor work is still in the budget. i found a bad A-arm bushing and torn boot on my brake caliper i also have to fix now.

I've tried disconnected the front sway at rally crosses and it really hurt my times (although felt okay). good to know about the travel. sounds like i'm about perfect. maybe i'll only up the front .5K or just dial back on the camber.

I'll have to hit up the craigslist 1.8L guy

you can't physically pull up on the trunk release, but the key part works. i'll try spraying it. If its cheaper i'll just convert to some sort of locking hood/trunk pin from summit. (assuming its class legal)

Like Dean said... if you've got an oversteer problem you need less rear bar, not less front bar.

A quick fix for the trunk release is to drill a hole in the bumper and route a shortened release cable out the hole. Tie it to a big washer, and voila you've got an external trunk release. Just remember that you effectively can't lock anyone out of the truck now unless you flip the release cable override (which you're sure isn't what's preventing the trunk release from working to begin with, right?).