sighting...

[sperry]

Originally Posted by ScottyS

How in the hell do you justify that pass at Scott, Juice? At all? After all of his time explaining, tolerating stupidity, etc? I mean, the dude gets a login, contributes mostly For Sale ads, and then this? Come on dude, even in your world that has to look a little ridiculous.

Here's what really sucks about that:

Andy isn't a bad guy. He's been out to autocross and hung out w/ all the SECCS folks there, and he's been part of the whole Subaru "scene" for a while. What sucks is that he, and a few people like him, would rather blow off a club that's been around since 2001 because they don't feel like they belong instead of trying to participate in the club.

I'm not interested in running SECCS forever, I'm not interested in forcing my will on everyone if it's different from what the majority of folks want (with perhaps the exception of my aversion to street racing). And by now other people should have stepped up to run the club on a more active basis than I (and the rest of the founding members) have time for. I'm not interested in having to make all the decisions about what happens with the club, and I'm not interested in SECCS being a static entity that never evolves or changes. It's supposed to be a resource for the Subaru community, based on the participation of the community itself.

But what I'm seeing w/ the whole Flat4 nonsense is anything but community. What I'm seeing is that a few people would rather intentionally create an us-vs-them situation, with an ultimatum about participation that directly hurts the community at large in Reno, and then comes on our board to flaunt their actions by using our resources to try to recruit their members.

So to be honest, if that's the sort of environment all you "young" people want, knock yourselves out. SECCS is not for a bunch of people who are "all badass" who would rather die than come to an SECCS meet. I mean, why do you guys think I run SECCS? Why would I spend thousands of dollars over the years hosting this site? Why would I spend thousands of hours moderating and maintaining the forum? Why would I work for 6 years with timing and scoring and on the Reno SCCA board representing our interests there? Do you think I'm doing it because I've got nothing better to do? Because it strokes my ego? Because I like dealing with spammers and e-thugs and PHP code?

I did it all for the community, for the friends I made, for the fun of getting together and talking about cars, for a resource to the folks that are out at the track. But that community seems to have died. Many of the great people that helped start all this don't participate much or have just gone away entirely. And new members get jumped on by the old folks, rather than rolled into the fold gently. So instead of a forum full of productive discussion building a thriving community, we've got a forum full of people bitching and moaning about worthless crap like how often a thread is bumped. And now people starting a competing club that apparently want to make a war out of who joins which club.

Well, fuck it. I'm not fighting a war. Flat4 is nothing of a threat to SECCS when compared to the cancer within SECCS itself. Clearly if people would rather pick a fight with us than work to improve the community SECCS is supposed to represent, then either SECCS has lost its way or the community itself is dead. Frankly, I get the feeling that both are true.

And that's what really sucks about Andy's comment.

[GusGus91]

Originally Posted by Dean

On all the other forums, I am a hot 18 year old Asian chick who drives a slammed Honda.

....bad picture in my head. I imagined the hot asian chick, mixed with you. haha didnt go so well in my head. I'm scarred for life now.

[cody]

Originally Posted by sperry

Here's what really sucks about that:

Andy isn't a bad guy. He's been out to autocross and hung out w/ all the SECCS folks there, and he's been part of the whole Subaru "scene" for a while. What sucks is that he, and a few people like him, would rather blow off a club that's been around since 2001 because they don't feel like they belong instead of trying to participate in the club.

I'm not interested in running SECCS forever, I'm not interested in forcing my will on everyone if it's different from what the majority of folks want (with perhaps the exception of my aversion to street racing). And by now other people should have stepped up to run the club on a more active basis than I (and the rest of the founding members) have time for. I'm not interested in having to make all the decisions about what happens with the club, and I'm not interested in SECCS being a static entity that never evolves or changes. It's supposed to be a resource for the Subaru community, based on the participation of the community itself.

But what I'm seeing w/ the whole Flat4 nonsense is anything but community. What I'm seeing is that a few people would rather intentionally create an us-vs-them situation, with an ultimatum about participation that directly hurts the community at large in Reno, and then comes on our board to flaunt their actions by using our resources to try to recruit their members.

So to be honest, if that's the sort of environment all you "young" people want, knock yourselves out. SECCS is not for a bunch of people who are "all badass" who would rather die than come to an SECCS meet. I mean, why do you guys think I run SECCS? Why would I spend thousands of dollars over the years hosting this site? Why would I spend thousands of hours moderating and maintaining the forum? Why would I work for 6 years with timing and scoring and on the Reno SCCA board representing our interests there? Do you think I'm doing it because I've got nothing better to do? Because it strokes my ego? Because I like dealing with spammers and e-thugs and PHP code?

I did it all for the community, for the friends I made, for the fun of getting together and talking about cars, for a resource to the folks that are out at the track. But that community seems to have died. Many of the great people that helped start all this don't participate much or have just gone away entirely. And new members get jumped on by the old folks, rather than rolled into the fold gently. So instead of a forum full of productive discussion building a thriving community, we've got a forum full of people bitching and moaning about worthless crap like how often a thread is bumped. And now people starting a competing club that apparently want to make a war out of who joins which club.

Well, fuck it. I'm not fighting a war. Flat4 is nothing of a threat to SECCS when compared to the cancer within SECCS itself. Clearly if people would rather pick a fight with us than work to improve the community SECCS is supposed to represent, then either SECCS has lost its way or the community itself is dead. Frankly, I get the feeling that both are true.

And that's what really sucks about Andy's comment.

I think the cancer, as you refer to it, has always been here. You even fostered it yourself prior to your new Zen-like attitude (which I'm a big fan of BTW). You, our fearless leader, are evolving and so is the club. It won't be pretty because this is SECCS/the internet and it's not pretty, but at the end of the day, we've all been entertained and helped eachother out a bit. I think one issue is how serious some people have been taking themselves. SECCS has always had a self-cleaning mechanism where bullshit is made fun of until it goes away. But let's keep it lighthearted. I think we all agree that we'd rather read some good old fashioned ribbing than a bunch of eyerolling smilies and anger in a post.

If we all just lighten up, these growing pains will be far less painful. I mean, keep speaking your mind for sure, that's what is so great about this forum, besides being local, is that free speach is encouraged and, for the most part, you can tell the site owner to fuck himself and he won't ban you. Please don't ban me.

But seriously, those of us who have been here for a while know that thoughtless banter text message-like posting is all too common on the boards out there and it's refreshing to have a more mature board where you don't have to weed through that shit. It's not really an age thing because a lot of the younger guys that have been here for a while fit right in. I think the emergence of Flat4RN.com is a good thing because it will represent one end of the Subaru Community spectrum while SECCS will hopefully continue to represent the other end. Hopefully we'll all meet in the middle at some point and be a happy family, but that's down the road if even possible. I'll be a member of both but expect to spend most of my visits there in the tech forum.

[SpamMan]

Ok once again we are not here to make any ripples in the water.. So you might just want to quit with all this BS and its not flat4 vs seccs.. i started this argument a long time ago and we had a happy medium... Sure flat4 is here and so are you but don't try to bash on us.. we are just a younger crowd and have the same love for subys just like you... if you dont like us being here hit me up and we could talk...

[cody]

Originally Posted by SpamMan

Ok once again we are not here to make any ripples in the water.. So you might just want to quit with all this BS and its not flat4 vs seccs.. i started this argument a long time ago and we had a happy medium... Sure flat4 is here and so are you but don't try to bash on us.. we are just a younger crowd and have the same love for subys just like you... if you dont like us being here hit me up and we could talk...

You don't demonstrate the "us vs them" mentality as some of your cohorts seem to. Again, IMO, it's just growing pains. I mean I got slammed to death for deciding to get road tuned by an independent tuner when I first joined this forum and I stuck it out. We all need to not get "butt hurt".

[sperry]

Originally Posted by SpamMan

Ok once again we are not here to make any ripples in the water.. So you might just want to quit with all this BS and its not flat4 vs seccs.. i started this argument a long time ago and we had a happy medium... Sure flat4 is here and so are you but don't try to bash on us.. we are just a younger crowd and have the same love for subys just like you... if you dont like us being here hit me up and we could talk...

If you have been reading carefully, you'll see that I'm not bashing Flat4, rather I'm bashing SECCS and our propensity for being less accepting of change around here than we should be. I have in fact been personally responsible myself for perpetuating that problem in the past, and I've certainly not done enough around here to foster a more friendly attitude.

However, I don't believe that Flat4 hasn't created conflict by choosing to hold their meets on the same day as SECCS. And certainly, Flat4 people coming here to promote the meet is tactless and inappropriate at best, especially after I had already indicated that doing so was unappreciated. Additionally, telling me I "might just want to quit with all this BS" and "don't try to bash on us" reeks of further ultimatums due to the implied "or else".

So, while I'm not happy about how you guys are handling the promotion of your meets, I'm neither bashing nor blaming you. Nor am I interested in asking Flat4 members to leave SECCS. In fact my post stated just the opposite. Like I said, I'm not interested in perpetuating a forum/club war where people are forced to pick sides. Rather I'm trying to figure out what it is that SECCS is doing such that you younger folks that "have the same love for subys" as us don't seem to be interested in participating in SECCS and would rather start from scratch.

[SpamMan]

Thank you sperry for clearing that up. I was just looking at all the post and I felt like it was an attack. But clearly we have to find the happy medium between the two of us. I am open to any suggestions out there I would love to see the subaru community grow with the old and the new.

[bigrobwoot]

Some suggestions for both sides:

Flat4: change the day of your meet so everyone can go to both meets, or choose which one they want to go to if they don't wanna go to both. I feel like that is where a lot of the hostility comes from.

SECCS: don't ignore people you've never met before at the meets. You know you don't know each other, so take a second to introduce yourselves. Although it may not seem like it to you, for someone who's never been to a meet before, it seems like the noob gets the cold shoulder, while you guys huddle together in your own tight little group. You guys, being the established members, have all the cards in your hands, and it's hard for new people to force themselves in there to try to mingle, and often won't try.

No one should take this as a personal attack, just constructive criticism from someone who doesn't really belong to either group, but is a member on both forums.

[SpamMan]

Thanks bratha...

[wrxkidid]

Wow...since when did we all end up back in HS? This whole forum for the past couple of months has been a ton of arguing and bickering and its getting annoying. Why can't everyone just get a long, yea the guys on here can be kind of condescending sometimes but for the most part it is all in good fun. Im 19 and I have hung around these old farts since I was 17, and I never really got flamed too hard but still have had posts targeted at me...It the damn internet, get over it.

[bigrobwoot]

^ lol word

[wrxkidid]

^ and this loser posed my name...dammit Robbie!!!! hahaha how is the new clutch? Yea I just went OT...

[bigrobwoot]

Originally Posted by wrxkidid

^ and this loser posed my name...dammit Robbie!!!! hahaha how is the new clutch? Yea I just went OT...

Haha technically I'm older, plus I'm named after my pops, so I had my name way before you did youngster . Clutch is great, got about 1k on it and no slipping so far, lol.

I had a friend who needed a new tranny in her WRX the week after we did that, and I tried to get her to let us do it for less than a shop, but she wouldn't do it. That woulda been at least $250 a piece, dammit!

Oh yeah, that flywheel gave me about 3.5 mpg's, and I think I might be driving more aggressively with it than I was before, since it pulls so much better with the flywheel. Well, pulls well for an NA car lol

[100_Percent_Juice]

Originally Posted by cody

Hopefully we'll all meet in the middle at some point and have a huge knife fight.

[cody]

[Kevin M]

Would it be West Side Story knife fighting, or Michael Jackson's Bad knife fighting, or gangsta style automatic weapons knife fighting?

[100_Percent_Juice]

This is what I would do if I were king.
1. All egos aside, merge both clubs(the last thing I need is another forum to look at). Instead of Big Town over here and Little Lamplight over there, I think we will be much more successful working together and with higher numbers we can lock down better venues.

2. I like the current name and it has an established rep in the community and its original so I say we keep it. SECCS and Flat4 can be "allies" like the USA and France(before 9/11) without having to make different chapters everywhere.

3. Be more flexible about the meet location and meet time. I never get to go to any meets because of the night they are on so maybe switch it up to Tuesday or something. I think these Flat4 guys have a lot to offer the club in the way of support and making people feel welcome at meets.

I think the best part of the Subaru community is being able to network with people that you would normally never meet. For example, I borrowed Rob and Will's transmission jack and while we were talking about beer, Will mentioned that he needed to make a stand for his setup. I told him that I could help with getting materials for his stand. So right there we each got a hook-up that we normally wouldn't have. I could go on like this about almost every member that I have ever met. I think we are missing the boat here if we don't take advantage of the situation.


Oh and Flat4, if you guys decide to keep your forum, let me make a new front page for you. The one you have now has got me cracking up.(no offense to whoever made it)

[100_Percent_Juice]

Originally Posted by Kevin M

Would it be West Side Story knife fighting, or Michael Jackson's Bad knife fighting, or gangsta style automatic weapons knife fighting?

Counterstrike style knife fight. A lot of cling clang sounds and then ultimately a lag spike determines the victor.

[sedonabugeye]

As far as the meets being on the same day... that flat4lv guys have been meeting on thursday nights since they started. thats why we continue the trend up here. So now with that said were not trying to get seccs members to come over with us, simply let everyone know that there is another club. and i do believe that we meet up earlier than seccs, so why not hit us up first then bouce to the seccs meet. doesnt matter to us. we just all share a passion for subarus, and feel this better suits our taste in a forum type meet-up/hangout deal. so like it was said before, if you want to critize someone, dont do it in such a condenscending way. be more constructive over it. i just get defensive when stuff gets said to me like it did.. so whatever.. im over it all!

[wildfirefli]

Sperry, I admire you.

And juice. Most of the time you have been a huge douche to me. LOL. But you make since. And I will apologize in advance the only form of Internet availaBle to me at this current moment is my iPhone. As far as the drama goes I was done with it a while ago. Things are going super well now and my purpose here is too hijack your knowledges,
ah. That's better. Someone decided to share the laptop!
Anyways.
I'm looking forward to spending the rest of my life modding my car and becoming the best driver I can be. I'm still toning myself down a little before I enter the autoX scene. I just want to be part of whatever Subaru community is going on but being a flat4 member before I even came here, in my point of view I am really enjoying the turnout. I'm sure there are clubs everywhere and then the asshole guys from flat4 move and branch out and of course want to continue their tradition. I'm going to go ahead and be asshole number 1.

I have learned more about cars in the last month than ever before that and most of that is because I dig through here, sort through the bullshit, and take what is useful. I'm here to hijack knowledges from all different kinds of forums. I've been told I'm annoyingly ecclectic. Oh and to you, you know who you are, I'm going to get on medications just for you. Nozzle!!!!!


Absorb what is useful, Discard what is useless, Add what is uniquely your own.

BAMF



oh and big ups for knifing~~~'


In all my friendliness

Mare

[bigrobwoot]

Originally Posted by 100_Percent_Juice

Counterstrike style knife fight. A lot of cling clang sounds and then ultimately a lag spike determines the victor.

I haven't played counterstrike in years, but this still made me lol

[koobaru]

^ditto, i had to log onto it after i read this. i got pwned. bah.

[GusGus91]

^ me too. Now i remember why i quit playing. haha

[scootyc]

I almost got tolerant enough to hang out...

[van]

Originally Posted by scootyc

I almost got tolerant enough to hang out...

??