Okay, now what? (sperry's motor tear-down thread)

[sperry]

Yeah, the smell thing was weird. I smelled something scorched as soon as I lifed the driver's side head off. But looking at the heads and pistons, nothing looked obviously damaged. There was a little bit of wear along the bottom side of the cylinders, but nothing looked gouged or anything. In fact, I'd say the cylinders could use a simple honing and be good as new, but what do I know about motor internals.

Also, the pistons looked okay, and the valved seemed alright. The only thing noticeable was a gouge around a non-critical part of the right intake cam... probably from the previous owner attempting to put a wrench on it to take off the cam sprocket.

I think we'll have to split the block to inspect the bearings and journals. Since there's all sorts of copper looking debris in the oil pan, I've got to think we'll find some busted rod bearings (are they copper?). The other possibility may be that the motor ingested a penny.. that would explain the turbo damage and the bits in the oil.

What I'm hoping now is that the problem can be fixed w/o a new short block, and all I'll need are some new piston rings, a hone on the cylinders, and some bearings. Adding in the cost of gaskets, I'm probably out the door for $500. But knowing my luck, the ring lands are shot, and the crank is trashed, and I'll have to sleeve the block or toss it out.

[sperry]

On a side note, does anyone have an idea on what hoses and line can be ditched off the motor? I know I don't need the water jacket for the throttle-body, or the heater core lines. Can I just remove those bits and plug the holes, or do I have to route them back into themselves?

[AtomicLabMonkey]

At least you didn't crack it open and find a piston had literally disappeared from its cylinder, like we did on the yellow car after one of its blowups.

[GST Mike]

Originally Posted by sperry

On a side note, does anyone have an idea on what hoses and line can be ditched off the motor? I know I don't need the water jacket for the throttle-body, or the heater core lines. Can I just remove those bits and plug the holes, or do I have to route them back into themselves?

There is a lot that you can strip depending on what stuff you still plan on using in the car, give me a call and I can go over it with you.

Mike

[GST Mike]

Originally Posted by sperry

Yeah, the smell thing was weird. I smelled something scorched as soon as I lifed the driver's side head off. But looking at the heads and pistons, nothing looked obviously damaged. There was a little bit of wear along the bottom side of the cylinders, but nothing looked gouged or anything. In fact, I'd say the cylinders could use a simple honing and be good as new, but what do I know about motor internals.

Also, the pistons looked okay, and the valved seemed alright. The only thing noticeable was a gouge around a non-critical part of the right intake cam... probably from the previous owner attempting to put a wrench on it to take off the cam sprocket.

I think we'll have to split the block to inspect the bearings and journals. Since there's all sorts of copper looking debris in the oil pan, I've got to think we'll find some busted rod bearings (are they copper?). The other possibility may be that the motor ingested a penny.. that would explain the turbo damage and the bits in the oil.

What I'm hoping now is that the problem can be fixed w/o a new short block, and all I'll need are some new piston rings, a hone on the cylinders, and some bearings. Adding in the cost of gaskets, I'm probably out the door for $500. But knowing my luck, the ring lands are shot, and the crank is trashed, and I'll have to sleeve the block or toss it out.

You'll want to have the crank polished, rods sized and then the replace the rings and bearings if it's just bearing damage. Everything that has oil pass through it will need to be cleaned or hot tanked or else you'll be doing exactly the same process again 1-2 track sessions in.

Mike

[sperry]

I don't think I'll be doing the final assembly. I'll probably have to find a shop to put it together for me, just to make sure I don't miss something important. As it is, I'm already out of my comfort zone with trying to figure out what's broken. I was expecting to see scoring and gouging on the #1 cylinder wall, but it doesn't really look at all bad.

I think I need to get someone experienced to figure out what needs replacing, then have 'em do the work. Unless of course it's just cheaper to get a new shortblock, I think I could assemble it if I'm just putting the heads back on the block.

[van]

I got a guy.

[MPREZIV]

Jeremy came over last night, and we were talking a bit about your motor Scott. After telling him what we found, he informed me that the piston pins in the turbo 2.5l are offset by about 2mm, which causes the piston to actually rock side to side in the cylinder when traveling up and down. All pistons do this to a degree, but the STi setup causes it to be more pronounced. Perfectly normal. In fact, it seems that if you were to pull a head and NOT see that top and bottom scoring that we found, you've likely got a frozen piston pin. So if nothing else, it seems that there's no worry with those cylinder marks. Good news I suppose.

[sperry]

Well, you free Wed night to help me split the block so we can see what's really going on?

[MPREZIV]

I'll give you a call!

[100_Percent_Juice]

hey I wouldn't mind coming by to check it out maybe even offer another set of hands if needed.

[van]

me too..... maybe

[Dean]

I'll bring milkshakes...

[van]

beer?

[sperry]

It looks like I'll be at work 'till 6pm, if not later... perhaps tonight's not a great night to get together for this.

[100_Percent_Juice]

pm me about those lateral links. If you have time I would like to get those tonight.

[MPREZIV]

Just lemme know what night would be good for you Scott. Long as I don't have something else pressing planned, you know I'm down!

[sperry]

FUCKING SNAP RINGS.

I've been trying to remove the snap ring that holds the wrist pin in my #2 piston for two weeks now. I've bought 12 pairs of snap ring pliers to try to get it out. I've come to the conclusion that there is no such thing as a useful pair of snap ring pliers. They're all either so cheap they can't even bend the ring enough to release it, or they're too wide to fit through the access hole in the block to take it out.

At this point, I'll pay the $100 for a snap-on set of pliers if I could be guaranteed it would work. Anyone have access to a tool truck this weekend?

[Dean]

I agree completely on snap ring pliers. They all suck. The one thst are even worse ar teh ones that only have a 45 degree angle cut into the end of the ring and no holes to grab onto. Those require 7 screwdrivers and 9 small children with good eyesight and precise little fingers to remove.

Cory's tool box is probably easier and costs less. Call him.

Probably only cost you a 4 piece and a beer to borrow a good pair.

[MPREZIV]

He already tried me, the only ones I have are short, high leverage ones. No reach whatsoever.

I've got one tool guy I can get ahold of on the weekends, and he's out of town for labor day, but I can see if Jeremy has a pair that'll reach in there. Seeing that he used to work on Subarus, it's probably a good chance...

[sperry]

qksubi happened to drop by my place yesterday and had a pair I borrowed. As of this morning, the #2 cylinder is free!

Now I just need to return the $30 in snap ring pliers I bought for no reason.

[kidatari]

Originally Posted by Dean

The one thst are even worse ar teh ones that only have a 45 degree angle cut into the end of the ring and no holes to grab onto. Those require 7 screwdrivers and 9 small children with good eyesight and precise little fingers to remove.

Dean, check these out. I haven't personally used a pair, but they look promising

http://www.knipex.com/index.php?id=7...&ukat=sicher01

[sperry]

So, this is what a ruined rod bearing looks like.

Now I need someone with some experience to take a look at everything else so I know what else needs to be replaced. To my inexperienced eye, the pistons and cylinders look fine. Hopefully that's the case, meaning I can just have the crank cleaned up, get some new rods and bearings, and get this thing back together.

But even if that's all that needs to be done, I still need to have everything hot-tanked and assembled properly... which I don't think I can do myself. Then there's the whole pile of work getting the motor back in the car with all the rest of the stuff that needs to be done for cooling. I don't think I'm making the Sept time trials.

[ryan4601]

Wow that dosn't look pretty. Good luck with all that scott.
ryan

[MPREZIV]

Ouch.