Camber Plates or Com Cs???

[rory_a]

Just wanted to get some insight from those with more experience than me:



About to have springs and struts installed by KSpeed - RCE Yellows with KYB AGX.

I have PDE camber plates sitting around. Think the ride would be too rough for a daily driver (read that with "and too rough to keep the lady happy") with the hard-mounted camber plates rather than something like WhiteLine's Com C strut tops?

I'm looking to max out my front camber which I know is limited by the stock-width springs - but the PDE plates would allow me to max out the camber for a weekend set up, and keep camber around -1.5* or so for daily use, and switch between the two quickly and accurately.


Thoughts? PDE Camber Plates, or WhiteLink Com Cs?

(the Com Cs, as you know, have the Group N rubber with an offset plate so you can set more camber/caster)

[rory_a]

Kevin has been and continues to strongly urge me to go with the WhiteLine Com Cs, so looks like that's what I'll end up doing.

He's thinking set the front camber at 2-2.2* and forget it. I like his reasoning too - I'll burn the outside of the tire on course no matter what camber setting I have, making up for a little more inside camber wear on street.


Sound about right?




Also, getting away with no front fender roll with the current snow tires on is going to be a challenge - the 225/45/17 General Altimax Arctics look way taller than the 225/45/17 RE070s and they sit uber flush with the fender compared to the 070s. Hmmm.

[Kevin M]

Yep, lots of Subaru autocrossers around here run race alignments year-round with no negative effects.

Your snow tires shouldn't be taller than your RE070s if they're both 225/45s. Tire manufacturers can get away with fudging widths, but diameters have to be very, very close to the mathematical size they're listed as.

[rory_a]

That's what I figured regarding tire diameter - and why I went with that size to save a hundred bucks over the cheapest 215/45 snows. Still, they seem frickin huge! And since my 070s are still at least 50%, I don't think wear has anything to do with size, plus they should be a bit wider making the size seem bigger. Maybe it's the bubble walls over the straight sidewalls. Oh well, they're big, and I know I NEED negative camber to drop the car - bit time!



By the way, responding to your email right now.




I'm still a fan of the quick camber change concept, but if all I can squeeze out of the spring/strut combo is about -2.2*, you're right - that's going to have to be good enough for fun, and would be good for the street. I'm used to running about -4-5* on the street in the rear with stupid amounts of unchangeable negative toe, but never put enough miles on those cars to worry about treadwear.

[Dean]

I was/will be using the 1 degree change theory for front camber plates.

I can't find my notes at the moment, but the basic theory is that camber plate changes also change toe, fortunately for us in the right direction.

By setting toe out a bit at your "track" camber settings, moving them 1 degree out to your street setting, the tow changes to slightly in which is fine if not actually good for the street.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by Dean

I was/will be using the 1 degree change theory for front camber plates.

I can't find my notes at the moment, but the basic theory is that camber plate changes also change toe, fortunately for us in the right direction.

By setting toe out a bit at your "track" camber settings, moving them 1 degree out to your street setting, the tow changes to slightly in which is fine if not actually good for the street.

I agree that the theory is pretty beneficial. The drawback, IMO, is that the toe changes a little too drastically. I'd like to run 0 toe on the street, and just a tiny, tiny bit of toe out at the track.

The reality is, if you're tipping over the camber say and additional -1 to -2 deg, you end up needing to run toe-in on the street, and quite a bit of toe-out at the track. I too can't remember the actual numbers for the toe change, but it's certainly too much toe out than I like from a handling perspective. Maybe for autocross that much toe-out is okay, but I dislike the excessive tramlining under braking and wear at the race track. 'Course, at the race track on r-comps, I would need to go from like -1.5 deg to -4.0 deg anyway which is too much to attempt to setup predicted toe change around anyway.

Plus, I'm lazy. So I just set the camber to max neg and the toe to 0 on the WRX and just live with the crappy alignment on the street since the car rarely gets driven anyway.

[Dean]

I think 1 degree is the max that works for my trick nicely which works mostly for 140 tread wear type street tires. I want to say I go from 1/16" out to a 1/16" in. It might be a bit more, I don't remember.

[cody]

Cory just set my alignment to -2 front, -1.7 rear using H&R Triple C camber bolts (one at each corner). I plan to stick with this alignment forever.

I ususally run a little more negative camber front and rear, but apparently the Triple C's don't create 6 degrees of adjustment on our cars, despite what their product page indicates. Regardless, this alignment should be more forgiving on my Snow tires while still being just fine for autocross on Starspecs.

[rory_a]

Cody - you're fitting the star specs comfortably with 17x8s, I know that - but what offset are your wheels? Rolled F/R or just rear?

The 225/45 are taller than the specs, but thinking their narrower profile will compensate for height regarding tight fitment enough to make them work til they're dead, at which time it'll be specs, so that's my focus.

I'll likely have a set of 17x8s, +45 come spring time, if Oakos brings about their intended limited edition matte grey (something all too common), that's a definite size, otherwise +45 or +48 whatever I get a good deal on.



Just accepted a much less lowball offer on my PDE plates from Nasioc, so I'm going to order Com Cs shortly. Figuring that my toe setting would be too whack with simple camber adjustment from the plates, this is the better way. Thanks for the info guys! You definitely helped seal the deal. I'm sure Jenn would appreciate it as well, the Com Cs should be much more comfortable.

[cody]

With the camber plates, you won't run as much of a risk of hitting the struts when increasing neg. camber, but you will be more likely to hit the fender liner at full lock, something I already do.

My FN01R-C's are +48 (so they're closer to the center of the car than +45) and my fenders are rolled front and rear, but not by a ton...just normal rolling I think. I did it myself. I don't think I could run less than -1.7 in the rear without hitting the fenders. We'll see come Summer.

[rory_a]

I'd like to know what Kevin's got for camber on his - that'd be the best comparison as he's on 17x8 +45, just not sure on his alignment and drop.




Not doing fronts at this point to avoid fender liner issues. We'll see though, that can wait I'm hoping???





On another note, Kartboy Rear Diff Botox Bolts and Anti-Lift Kits legal in DSM?

[Kevin M]

Neither one is ESP legal.

[rory_a]

Thanks Kevin, especially for knowing what I meant more than I apparently did.

[k-dogg39]

Originally Posted by rory_a

I'd like to know what Kevin's got for camber on his - that'd be the best comparison as he's on 17x8 +45, just not sure on his alignment and drop.

For my camber I am running front -2.7, rear ~ -1.8. I have only rolled my rear fenders slightly. For my drop I am right at RCE's recommended heights of 14.0 front, 13.5 rear. Keep in mind I am on coilovers with camber plates in the front and rear.

[cody]

Originally Posted by k-dogg39

For my camber I am running front -2.7, rear ~ -1.8. I have only rolled my rear fenders slightly. For my drop I am right at RCE's recommended heights of 14.0 front, 13.5 rear. Keep in mind I am on coilovers with camber plates in the front and rear.

Are you completely without aftermarket camber bolts then? What camber plates do you run and do they add much NVH?

[rory_a]

Originally Posted by cody

Are you completely without aftermarket camber bolts then? What camber plates do you run and do they add much NVH?

Kevin's plates are probably made of gold with dangle chains, to match his shiny pimp coilovers

Just sayin.

[Kevin M]

Originally Posted by cody

Are you completely without aftermarket camber bolts then? What camber plates do you run and do they add much NVH?

RCE coilovers have slotted mounting ears for the uprights. No camber bolts needed, just careful installation.

[cody]

Aw, okay.

[k-dogg39]

Originally Posted by cody

Are you completely without aftermarket camber bolts then? What camber plates do you run and do they add much NVH?

Yes.

Originally Posted by Kevin M

RCE coilovers have slotted mounting ears for the uprights. No camber bolts needed, just careful installation.

This. And I am on GTWORX camber plates, and yes there is a little more NVH.

Originally Posted by rory_a

Kevin's plates are probably made of gold with dangle chains, to match his shiny pimp coilovers

Just sayin.

[rory_a]

Originally Posted by k-dogg39

Exactly.