Are Khumho 710 tires trackable?

[A1337STI]

I'm kicking around the idea of getting some Khumo 710s . I recently had the great fortune to run across 4 ASA Rims with Snowtires for the crazy price of $200 .. so i had to buy them. now i have 3 sets of rims...

So If i bought some 710s i know i'de be tempted to Track them, but they would just melt away to the cords before i finished 1 day? I read a review on tire rack from an autocrosser who said he used them with a 3800 lb car and he thought if his car was 3200 ish he could use them for both AutoX and track ... ?

do the hoosiers Own a lot over the 710s

Also a 245/45 ? or go with what Allon had on his STI / Evo last year a 275 / 40 ... ?


I'm sorta thinking those tires, on an STI out at RFR will cord them before 1 day is over. but i have no clue, no experience on them or any R compound.

the Advan A048 would seem like a tire that could 'do both track and autoX' but i'm wondering if the advan A048 is grippy enough @ autoX to be better then say some RE01's and the street tire handicap.

I seem to recall Sperry saying the Pilot sport cups rock but definitly need a warm up lap or two, so that would lead me to think they would not be good at autox (or better then RE01's with the hadicap)

thoughts ? idears ?

thanks

[sperry]

The V710's are supposed to be iffy at the track. The old victoracers would be fine, but they weren't great at autocross, so I would assume the v710 is really an autocross tire, and would avoid tracking them. The A-compound Hoosiers would *definitely* be trashed at the track. Those things are like butter soft... but the R-compound Hoosiers are great (but pricey, like all things Hoosier) at the track.

If you're looking for an affordable track R-comp tire, I still have to go with the Toyo RA1's. You have to get 'em shaved, but they still have the reputation for bang for the buck. Like you mentioned, my personal favorite is the Mich Pilot Sport Cup tires (same tires OEM on the Porsche GT3 :drool: ). They're pricier than the RA1's by about $300/set, but I get a little more life out of them (they don't need shaving) and they're stickier by a noticeable amount. Both these tires however are decidedly *not* autocross tires. Sure, they're faster around the course than street tires, but the street tire factor more than compensates for it. Even with this season's revised street tire PAX numbers, I'd still pick a Azenis or RE-01R with the ST factor over some Sport Cups... but I bet the v710's and A-Hoosiers are going to be much faster than street tires with the factor (they were already faster IMO before the revised PAX numbers).

One final thing to note about R-compounds at the track... you will need more negative camber. Like -4deg or more up front to keep these tires happy. I killed a set of RA1's in a weekend at -2.5deg front camber... rubbed the outside corners right off. This is even more critical if you're on stock (i.e. soft) suspension. The additional grip of these tires is so great that you'll be seeing far more roll in the corners than anything you've ever gotten on street tires due to the crazy lateral G's, thus requiring that much more static neg. camber to combat the camber gain under cornering. For reference, I'm pulling nearly 2 lateral G's during transitions, and sustaining almost 1.5G's in the corners, up from probably .9G's max on street tires at autocross.

[A1337STI]

Aaaah.

oooh.

hmmm.

Alrighty , Great info! Thanks!! So if i want to run race rubber at the track the right way i need to be able to adjust my Camber and use a tire that will last. (ie not the 710 or A-hoosier)


I was thinking of getting those Fixed Perch stock legal Ohlin struts for 1800 . and maybe some 710s later on in the season ... Seeing how i have a 3" catback (probably not doing much other then a great sound) I think that would create a highly maxed out Astock car. (would i be missing anything very helpful?)

Currently i have access to a Free COBB DownPipe (3") Ansel was pointing out to me that for the same 1800 i could most likely get some coilovers and a new swaybar set, Then spend that tire money on a Cobb AP and download the STU legal map ... I currently have some 245/45 REO1 tires . I think this (if it includes a way to adjust camber) Would be a solid STU setup, but i don't think it would be as strong of a setup in its class, but i'm not really certain. (what big items would it be lacking? do headers matter that much?)


I think BSP would require more mods then i'de want to buy . plus you are allowed really wide rims and tires and i would rather avoid buying rims...

[Dean]

Skip headers, everyone is going back to stock.

8" rims are best both for STU and BSP without going crazy on price and width. STU is limited to 245s.

STU is basically as expensive as TSP and TSP is way more fun with some extra BOOST!!!

Falken Azenis 615s rock at the track and at autocross and are way faster than at least MikeK's RE01s.

Race rubber is over rated! You will learn to drive better much faster on Street Tires. Heck, the same is more or less true for suspension as well unless you drive a Caddy.

The worse your car, the more you have to drive to go fast.

If you are ready to go beyond AS, probably the first step is suspension and then an AP. I think TEIN Flexes are still teh way to go.

[sperry]

What Dean said, except for the part about race tires being overrated. Once you go to race tires, you'll never want to go back to street tires. They're that much faster. I can only image what true race slicks are like, as the difference between slicks and r-comps is supposed to be bigger than the difference between r-comps and streets.

[MikeK]

Originally Posted by Dean

Falken Azenis 615s rock at the track and at autocross and are way faster than at least MikeK's RE01s.

Wait until this year, they've had a season's worth of "shaving" done to them!

[NevadaSTi]

Alex, an FYI. Those ASA JH-3's are 7.5" wide, as compared to your stock rim at 8". I also seam to remember that my JH-3's weighted more then the stock rims.

[dknv]

If you were competing for money or other compensation at the track, and if you were driving a lighter, well-setup car and you were already a seasoned, smooth and fast driver there - 710's might be worth a few laps. But I wouldn't spend the money on 710's and use them up at a track, it's more worth it to preserve those for autox-only use.

Whether hoosiers or 710's own - depends on alot of things. We drove 275 hoosiers at a pro solo in 2006, and weren't real happy with tight-radius turns, but the launches were awesome. But, they realllllly need lots of camber, and they wear out faster.

[A1337STI]

Yes those ASAs are 7.5 inches wide. they are just for Snow tires now though

I probably will drive on the set of snow tires that came with the rims all summer , as they are past the Winter wear bars and won't be great in the snow, and it will save tread on my summer tires.

so if STU is as expensive as SP , but not as much fun, then STU doesn't seem like the place for me.

So staying in Stock would probably be the best setup in terms of helping me learn to be a faster driver? then I'm heavily leaning towards staying in stock class , but i really want new dampeners if i do, as mine make a lot of noise now (annoying) and visually it looks like one side dampens less then the other (jumping off the rear bumper while watching)

710s on my car Stock (or with Ohlins) should i expect the outsides to cord 1/2 way through the season (10 events) or would they last the entire season? My front negative camber is -.5 or -.4 depending on the alignment rack (the other is at -1.0 yes lots of cross camber, i will Fix that this year, and my toe out int he rear situation)



thew newer dampeners shouldn't slow down my learning , would they? I would think trying 710s would make my car handle differently which would help me learn more, but maybe it would hinder learning.... At any rate i'm overly eager for the season to start!!!

[Kevin M]

Dampers. Dampers. Dampers.

[Dean]

Originally Posted by A1337STI

So staying in Stock would probably be the best setup in terms of helping me learn to be a faster driver? then I'm heavily leaning towards staying in stock class , but i really want new dampeners if i do, as mine make a lot of noise now (annoying) and visually it looks like one side dampens less then the other (jumping off the rear bumper while watching)

710s on my car Stock (or with Ohlins) should i expect the outsides to cord 1/2 way through the season (10 events) or would they last the entire season? My front negative camber is -.5 or -.4 depending on the alignment rack (the other is at -1.0 yes lots of cross camber, i will Fix that this year, and my toe out int he rear situation)



thew newer dampeners shouldn't slow down my learning , would they? I would think trying 710s would make my car handle differently which would help me learn more, but maybe it would hinder learning.... At any rate i'm overly eager for the season to start!!!

A decent set of dampers is better than a broken/mismatched set. Get the Ohlins if they work with the stock springs which are required for Stock. Plus they will be better for rallycross if you want to do that some more.

710s or Hoosiers at the max stock camber of negative 0.5-1 front will last days, not portions of a season. Expect 2.5 sets per season. Welcome back to TAS.

Matt and Carrie with more camber than that killed a set in 4 days I think.

Toe in is bad. Zero is the best compromise, a bit of out on both ends is best for autocross, but is dicey at the track and eats tires faster.

[A1337STI]

Yeah my alignment is a nightmare! Guess its time to hit up a few ohlin vendors...

I will probably only be doing rallycross in my 93' as i'm about to buy rally tires for it , but i might still run the sti in one.