Better than a plane on a treadmill - Subaru Enthusiasts Car Club of the Sierras

MikeK · 2010-06-02, 07:19 PM

A wind powered vehicle that travels faster than the wind.

Nick Koan · 2010-06-02, 08:07 PM

Hah, that's pretty cool.

cody · 2010-06-02, 08:45 PM

It's almost like wind could be a source of energy.

Dean · 2010-06-02, 09:04 PM

Anybody who sails should have thought this might be possible. It is fairly trivial to sail cross wind faster than the wind, the challenge is to turn that energy into motion parallel to the wind.

The airfoils on the windmill bit are still working perpendicular to the wind, so it does not surprise me that they can propel he vehicle forward generating energy at the wheels which can be used to increase the airflow over the airfoils, rinse and repeat.

Quite ingenious though. I like it.

sperry · 2010-06-03, 09:02 AM

As soon as I saw the title, I knew this was DWFTTW.

ScottyS · 2010-06-04, 09:53 AM

This still doesn't help us beat the tool with mylar sails that takes 5min to get the spinnaker up.

Dean · 2010-06-04, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottyS

This still doesn't help us beat the tool with mylar sails that takes 5min to get the spinnaker up.

Right. This doesn't really help from a water sailing perspective. In some ways it take s us back the the America's cup where they had the cat or was it trimaran with the wings on it that just dominated.

Sails are so 0th century.

If you want to go faster than the wind downwind, you need to use something a bit more modern and/or complicated.

100_Percent_Juice · 2010-06-04, 10:11 AM

I think this is stupid. Wind is never going to be practical to power a personal vehicle like a car.

ScottyS · 2010-06-04, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean

Right. This doesn't really help from a water sailing perspective. In some ways it take s us back the the America's cup where they had the cat or was it trimaran with the wings on it that just dominated.

Sails are so 0th century.

If you want to go faster than the wind downwind, you need to use something a bit more modern and/or complicated.

The cats and tris are faster because of the hull speed physics, less beam = higher hull speed. No hydroplaning action needed if you have a cat.

Sails rule.

Back in April:

cody · 2010-06-04, 11:35 AM

How do you keep your drink from spilling?

Dean · 2010-06-04, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottyS

The cats and tris are faster because of the hull speed physics, less beam = higher hull speed. No hydroplaning action needed if you have a cat.

Sails rule.

Back in April:

Ha. True on hull resistance, but wings are just a skoch more efficient than sails.

Edit: The Current America's cup winner! Check out the article...

More Goodness on the boat/wing...

Nick Koan · 2010-06-04, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cody

How do you keep your drink from spilling?

You use nature's cup holder.

Kevin M · 2010-06-04, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Koan

You use nature's cup holder.

The person in the passenger seat?

100_Percent_Juice · 2010-06-04, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin M

The person in the passenger seat?

That might work.

sperry · 2010-06-04, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cody

How do you keep your drink from spilling?

I've never been drinking on a boat where I ever had to put down a non-empty drink. When it's your turn to wakeboard, you better finish up that beer before jumping in the water!

ScottyS · 2010-06-04, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean

Ha. True on hull resistance, but wings are just a skoch more efficient than sails.

Edit: The Current America's cup winner! Check out the article...

More Goodness on the boat/wing...

No doubt tris are cool, and new technology makes them scary fast. Funny thing, my aunt's father won the 1980 Observer Single-handed Trans-Atlantic Race with a custom tri named "Moxie", setting a world record for the crossing in just under 18 days. Philip Weld - he was 65 at the time.

sperry · 2010-06-04, 02:52 PM

Man... when I was a little kid, I had a huge thing for sailboat racing and America's Cup. But that was like 20 years ago... I'm surprised they decided to open up the rules so much. People were bitching that it cost too much 20 years ago just to develop a hull shape... now the rules are so open, it's going to cost several fortunes over to build a winning racer! Tri's with massive wingfoils are cool from a technology standpoint, but it feels like F1 in the 90's... it's just a technology demo... the spirit of racing seems to get swallowed up by the gizmos.

sperry · 2010-06-04, 02:56 PM

Woah... this thing is crazy!

Does the huge mainmast rotate to remain perpendicular to the sea?!

ScottyS · 2010-06-04, 03:39 PM

Yeah, I agree that the real skill of sailing goes out the window when you bring an onboard computer into the mix, analyzing/controlling nearly everything.

There are few things that are more skill-dependent than using the gut and the eyeball to trim the sails and calculate how close to the wind to keep it.

Dean · 2010-06-04, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperry

Woah... this thing is crazy!
Does the huge mainmast rotate to remain perpendicular to the sea?!

Wow, had not seen a picture from that angle flying the main hull!!! Is it really a trimaran if only one outrigger is in the water?

Yes, the wing is ball mounted so it can be tilted I believe. The PDF I linked to said something about it.

sperry · 2010-06-04, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean

Wow, had not seen a picture from that angle flying the main hull!!! Is it really a trimaran if only one outrigger is in the water?

Yes, the wing is ball mounted so it can be tilted I believe. The PDF I linked to said something about it.

Um... the PDF you "linked" to is a tiny little picture:

Dean · 2010-06-04, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperry

Um... the PDF you "linked" to is a tiny little picture:

Sorry, fixed above and here...

http://bmworacleracing.com/de/yacht/pdf/The_USA.pdf

2010-06-02, 07:19 PM	#1
MikeK Captain Turbo Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Reno Posts: 3,318 Car: 05 STi	Better than a plane on a treadmill A wind powered vehicle that travels faster than the wind.

2010-06-02, 08:07 PM	#2
Nick Koan JDM Cowboy Real Name: Nick Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Somewhere Posts: 8,642 Car: 2015 Mazda 3	Hah, that's pretty cool. __________________ While a standard engine is powered by a belt connected to the crankshaft, a turbo engine runs on its own exhaust steam, making it more energy efficient. -- CNN

2010-06-02, 08:45 PM	#3
cody Candy Mountain Real Name: Cody Join Date: May 2005 Location: Californication Posts: 7,751 Car: 03 Pussy Wagon, now with more pink! Class: TESP OMG Internet!	It's almost like wind could be a source of energy. __________________ Slow and low, that is the tempo.

2010-06-02, 09:04 PM	#4
Dean Señor Cheap Bastarde Real Name: Dean Join Date: May 2003 Location: $99 Tire Store Posts: 9,294 Car: $.04 STI Class: Fast,Cheap & Reliable=STI Deal, did somebody say Deal? Oh, Dean, yeah that's me.	Anybody who sails should have thought this might be possible. It is fairly trivial to sail cross wind faster than the wind, the challenge is to turn that energy into motion parallel to the wind. The airfoils on the windmill bit are still working perpendicular to the wind, so it does not surprise me that they can propel he vehicle forward generating energy at the wheels which can be used to increase the airflow over the airfoils, rinse and repeat. Quite ingenious though. I like it. __________________ I am a Commodore PET --- Now get off my lawn you kids... Last edited by Dean; 2010-06-02 at 09:09 PM.

2010-06-03, 09:02 AM	#5
sperry The Doink Real Name: Scott Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 20,335 Car: '09 OBXT, '02 WRX, '96 Miata Class: PDX/TT-6 The way out is through	As soon as I saw the title, I knew this was DWFTTW. __________________ Is you is, or is you ain't, my con-stit-u-ints?

2010-06-04, 09:53 AM	#6
ScottyS EJ205 Real Name: It is real! Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: RNO Posts: 2,367 Car: 1998 Impreza Wagon, 1991 Legacy Turbo Sedan, 2003 Nissan Xterra Class: tvFree Yes, I'll fix it for you. Again.	This still doesn't help us beat the tool with mylar sails that takes 5min to get the spinnaker up. __________________ "Trend Number One is that people aren't getting any smarter." Dogbert

2010-06-04, 10:11 AM	#8
100_Percent_Juice (40 percent vodka) Real Name: Joel Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 4,446 Car: 2004WRX Class: Baby-Hauler/GroceryGetter	I think this is stupid. Wind is never going to be practical to power a personal vehicle like a car. __________________ "A power nap is when you sleep on someone who is weaker than you." - Dimitri Martin

2010-06-04, 11:35 AM	#10
cody Candy Mountain Real Name: Cody Join Date: May 2005 Location: Californication Posts: 7,751 Car: 03 Pussy Wagon, now with more pink! Class: TESP OMG Internet!	How do you keep your drink from spilling? __________________ Slow and low, that is the tempo.

2010-06-04, 02:52 PM	#17
sperry The Doink Real Name: Scott Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 20,335 Car: '09 OBXT, '02 WRX, '96 Miata Class: PDX/TT-6 The way out is through	Man... when I was a little kid, I had a huge thing for sailboat racing and America's Cup. But that was like 20 years ago... I'm surprised they decided to open up the rules so much. People were bitching that it cost too much 20 years ago just to develop a hull shape... now the rules are so open, it's going to cost several fortunes over to build a winning racer! Tri's with massive wingfoils are cool from a technology standpoint, but it feels like F1 in the 90's... it's just a technology demo... the spirit of racing seems to get swallowed up by the gizmos. __________________ Is you is, or is you ain't, my con-stit-u-ints?

2010-06-04, 02:56 PM	#18
sperry The Doink Real Name: Scott Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 20,335 Car: '09 OBXT, '02 WRX, '96 Miata Class: PDX/TT-6 The way out is through	Woah... this thing is crazy! Does the huge mainmast rotate to remain perpendicular to the sea?! __________________ Is you is, or is you ain't, my con-stit-u-ints?

2010-06-04, 03:39 PM	#19
ScottyS EJ205 Real Name: It is real! Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: RNO Posts: 2,367 Car: 1998 Impreza Wagon, 1991 Legacy Turbo Sedan, 2003 Nissan Xterra Class: tvFree Yes, I'll fix it for you. Again.	Yeah, I agree that the real skill of sailing goes out the window when you bring an onboard computer into the mix, analyzing/controlling nearly everything. There are few things that are more skill-dependent than using the gut and the eyeball to trim the sails and calculate how close to the wind to keep it. __________________ "Trend Number One is that people aren't getting any smarter." Dogbert

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