Machine shops & STI engine rebuild...

[Dean]

I am all ready to assemble if I can ever get together with SedonaBugEye to get the ring grinder?

Anybody else have one? Only need it for a few hours to do rings.

I think I have "dry fit" and Mic'd everything else.

The electric water pump mod sounds interesting.

[Dean]

5 months and many trials and tribulations later, the motor is together and ready to go in the car today!!!

Anybody want to help me jockey it into place? I have a nice heated garage to do it in.

[IheartSTI]

Originally Posted by Dean

5 months and many trials and tribulations later, the motor is together and ready to go in the car today!!!

Anybody want to help me jockey it into place? I have a nice heated garage to do it in.

I am jelous dean... You are putting a new motor in and I am
Taking a new motor out... Yes I started up my car to hear clank clank clank knock slap crack kaboom. Boy am I releaved I did not assemble my motor. Hope you have better luck! And if it was not my sons b day I would come help.

[Dean]

Just about everything is in and on and I am filling it with fluids.

I need to scrounge some silicone or metal 3" tubing 6" long to connect the stock box to my intake duct.

[Dean]

Well crap... It won't really start.

Appears to be firing only 1 cylinder.

Need to do some more diagnosis but need some food and bitching time first while I think about it.

[ScottyS]

Aaaaaaaaah!

Plug in cam sensor? J/K good luck with it.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by ScottyS

Aaaaaaaaah!

Plug in cam sensor? J/K good luck with it.

Actually... don't forget the STi does have two cam sensors on the back of the heads for the AVCS system unlike the WRX motor.

[Dean]

No CEL, so unlikely anything electrical. After last time with the crank sensor that and cams were the first things I checked.

I was kind of afraid of this actually. I think I may have bent valve(s) when I was putting on the timing belt and have low or very low compression on the driver side bank. To start with I mixed up the TDC mark and the timing belt installation mark. So what I thought was valve spring resistance was piston contact. I did not push very hard, but I guess it may have been hard enough.

I'll check compression in the AM.

If that is it, I get to decide to pull the motor again or swap the head in the car.

[Kevin M]

Pull the motor. Swapping a DOHC head in-car would be a nightmare.

[IheartSTI]

Originally Posted by Dean

No CEL, so unlikely anything electrical. After last time with the crank sensor that and cams were the first things I checked.

I was kind of afraid of this actually. I think I may have bent valve(s) when I was putting on the timing belt and have low or very low compression on the driver side bank. To start with I mixed up the TDC mark and the timing belt installation mark. So what I thought was valve spring resistance was piston contact. I did not push very hard, but I guess it may have been hard enough.

I'll check compression in the AM.

If that is it, I get to decide to pull the motor again or swap the head in the car.

It would be hard to bend a valve unless you really cranked on it dean. good luck on this though

[MPREZIV]

Subaru valves have very thin stems. Doesn't take much to bend them...

[ScottyS]

Originally Posted by Kevin M

Pull the motor. Swapping a DOHC head in-car would be a nightmare.

Stop it, stop it now!!!!

[IheartSTI]

Originally Posted by MPREZIV

Subaru valves have very thin stems. Doesn't take much to bend them...

timing the motor? come on now there not that thin walled. You never know with subaru engineering i probably should not be surprised. FYI it would probably start with really mildly bent valves. Mine were thrashed and it still ran (poorly) good luck though dean and hopefully it is not the valves!

[cody]

Originally Posted by IheartSTI

timing the motor? come on now there not that thin walled. You never know with subaru engineering i probably should not be surprised. FYI it would probably start with really mildly bent valves. Mine were thrashed and it still ran (poorly) good luck though dean and hopefully it is not the valves!

You should change your name to IhateSTI.

[Kevin M]

Originally Posted by cody

You should change your name to IhateSTI.

Blow yours up a few times and you might hate them too.

[IheartSTI]

Originally Posted by cody

You should change your name to IhateSTI.

its a love hate relationship... Yes i agree blow a few motors up and you will probably feel the same. lol. In all honesty I love subaru i just wish they would make me a 2.5L close deck cast Iron block but dont we all wish that? I must have a chip on my shoulder. Went to AIMS yesterday and found out I jump timing on first start up on a brand new motor bent some valves. AIMS in my opinion is the best machine shop/ engine builder in town reconizing that this was NOT the customs fault and taking full responsibility. Every business/workers make mistakes but the ones who make it right i really like! AIMS FTW

[Dean]

Was it improperly installed tensioner or guides not adjusted properly? I don't know how you jump teeth without one of those being wrong.

That was one thing I was super careful about. compressing my tensioner took about 10 minutes doing it by the book and I did the guides with feeler gauges and a couple minutes each to get them good.

[Dean]

OK, Good but confusing news...

Compression test results from a stone cold never broken in engine at 45-50PSI oil pressure:
1=102 & combustion has occurred.
2=91 No sign of combustion
3=97 No sign of combustion
4=99 No sign of combustion
I was right, 1 cylinder was firing. Little woot

In theory, I think cylinder 4 should be the one that I should be worried about since isn't cylinder 4 also at TDC when Cylinder 1 is and therefore the one the intake valve could be bent on from contact during timing belt install?

That 91 is a little low but I don't think too low unless it is the cylinder that is also at TDC when one is.

So now what?

No CELs on attempting to start. Fuel is getting to at least the third one along the rails if I have the order right.

The only CELs I have disabled relate to TGVs and O2 sensors.

In theory C&C just(4-5 months ago) cleaned and flow tested all injectors and I would assume they would throw a CEL if the ECU could not talk to them. odds of 3 coil packs failing simultaneously = near zero.

WTF!!! 3 bad brand new NGK spark plugs? Guess I can check center continuity.

[Dean]

Follow up to above...

Dang, looking at a crank, it looks like 1&2 are at TDC at the same time, not 1&4.
Might have slightly belt that intake valve on C2. Will have to do a leak down test but that doesn't explain why it isn't firing on anything but C1.
All plugs show ~5KOhm resistance which matches old ones.

What are the best ways to check for spark and fuel presence?

[Kevin M]

If there's no carbon residue and no wetness on the plugs, you're not getting fuel to those cylinders. Did you double check the fuel supply routing?

[Dean]

Carbon = combustion. None

Wetness. Will have to try that. Pulled fuel relay and fired on 1 cylinder before opening up for comp check but no obvious residue of any kind on them.

Pressure line with angled gizmo closest to strut top goes on top, return next, smaller canister line on bottom. I had used the fuel pump to drain old fuel so I know which is pressure. Cylinder 1 gets fuel after 2 & 4 and 3 is last before the regulator so if 1 is firing, others should have fuel, just don't know if injectors are firing, but wouldn't it throw a CEL if they were not talking to the ECU?

I don't know If there is some special way to prime an injector.

How to test spark? Can I just ground the plugs. Don't want to hurt the packs or anything else.

I can't imagine it is possible to put 3 coil packs on with the "boot" missing the plug and have them go on and off easily and bolt line up and finger tighten easily is it?

[IheartSTI]

Originally Posted by Dean

Carbon = combustion. None

Wetness. Will have to try that. Pulled fuel relay and fired on 1 cylinder before opening up for comp check but no obvious residue of any kind on them.

Pressure line with angled gizmo closest to strut top goes on top, return next, smaller canister line on bottom. I had used the fuel pump to drain old fuel so I know which is pressure. Cylinder 1 gets fuel after 2 & 4 and 3 is last before the regulator so if 1 is firing, others should have fuel, just don't know if injectors are firing, but wouldn't it throw a CEL if they were not talking to the ECU?

I don't know If there is some special way to prime an injector.

How to test spark? Can I just ground the plugs. Don't want to hurt the packs or anything else.

I can't imagine it is possible to put 3 coil packs on with the "boot" missing the plug and have them go on and off easily and bolt line up and finger tighten easily is it?

Any more info on your problem yet dean? I am curious to know what it was. It will not hurt the coil pack to check for spark either. You will know very quick if the plug arks to anything. If the boot does not go over the plug you will know quickly. I wonder if you can switch the coil packs to the opposite side that they are currently on. I know with my Hydra ECU it will not start if the coil packs are on opposite sides. I randomly ran across that on nasioc not to long ago but i do not know if the same rule applies to factory ECU. You might have mentioned this but did you make sure everything is grounded properly? Does your battery have more than 7 volts (i think that is the minimum amount that it will actually allow it to start) You have already covered the fuel lines being on properly correct? I just cant see the car not starting with slightly bent valves. I had crawford aftermarket timing belt idler pulley's that swivel and one of them moved causing my car to jump timing, bend 4 valves pretty bad and yet it still started. it was not until i got out of my car and near my engine bay where i heard the valve to piston sound and then turned it off. I mention this because i refuse to believe you should bend valves that bad from timing your car to not allow it to even try to fire. Good luck and keep us informed!

[Dean]

Been away since last week so no progress. Will be testing more later today.

Left and right coil packs???? Will have to check part numbers, but I think they are all the same. Not sure how you could mess them up so only 1 fires though. I also have 4 more from the '04 motor I could swap in.

It probably wouldn't hurt to check fuel pressure too, but again if it was low why would 1 be firing.

[IheartSTI]

I have some sidefeed sti injectors u can borrow to trouble shoot of u believe it might be an issue. Let ne know

[sperry]

Originally Posted by Dean

Been away since last week so no progress. Will be testing more later today.

Left and right coil packs???? Will have to check part numbers, but I think they are all the same. Not sure how you could mess them up so only 1 fires though. I also have 4 more from the '04 motor I could swap in.

It probably wouldn't hurt to check fuel pressure too, but again if it was low why would 1 be firing.

I think all the coil packs are the same. He's just saying if you've got the harness flipped over the left side packs won't fire the right side cylinders, and vise-versa.

Any chance you've got like the #2 and #4 coilpacks swapped? That might cause #1 to fire, #3 to misfire, and #2 and #4 are just totally out of time? (I'm just guessing... I don't remember the firing order off hand to know if that's really probable.)