O...M...G... Talk about dodging a bullet

[sperry]

So, for those of you that were haning out at my place after the Auto-X on Saturday helping me work on my steering rack clunk... do any of you remember be torquing the lugs on my RF rim? Probably not, because the did not get torqued. :shock: That's right, I drove to and from Stead and Matt's house and ran 6 autoX runs that were easily in the 80 mph + range on a loose rim!

When I got back to my place tonight, I asked Kevin, "hey do you remember me torquing that wheel?" SO I grabbed a wrench and bingo, still nice and loose. All the torque the lugs had was from whatever my cordless drill puts on 'em when I zap 'em while the corner's still in the air.

I'm *extremely* lucky to have not lost a rim, especially considering the course we were running, where a RF rim comming off at the end of that straight could have meant rolling the car 9 times onto an active runway.

For everone that's heard the old "check your lugs before you race" and ignored it like me... DON'T IGNORE IT ANY LONGER. My pre-grid checklist just gain another item: "check torque on all wheel lugs".

[Kevin M]

Yeah jsut FYI guys... if you're chasing down a suspension noise and it's a "creak... creak... creak" like a screen door in a slight breeze... break out the torque wrench.

[Dean]

Originally Posted by sperry

For everone that's heard the old "check your lugs before you race" and ignored it like me... DON'T IGNORE IT ANY LONGER. My pre-grid checklist just gain another item: "check torque on all wheel lugs".

While I agree that might not be a bad idea, it also be good to have a very fixed routine when changing wheels.

While I have a cordless impact, I never rely on it for proper torque, and probably stop at about 40-50ft-lbs in the air. I then drop the wheel so it just touches the ground to prevent spinning, but no serious load on it, and torque all 6 bolts. Yes, 6. If you do the every other bolt pattern on a 5 lug, if you do 6, you know you have done them all. If the 6th doesn't click imediately, I know the wheel was not seated correctly, and will usually jack it back up and take it off and see if something is wrong before trying again. When I am realy tired I may do all 10 of 5 just to be sure.

I do this sequence every time, only varying the number of bolts I tighten from 6-10. Even if I have a jack point that raises two corners at a time, I always finish the one that toucches first and then move on to the second with the same sequence.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by Dean

While I agree that might not be a bad idea, it also be good to have a very fixed routine when changing wheels.

While I have a cordless impact, I never rely on it for proper torque, and probably stop at about 40-50ft-lbs in the air. I then drop the wheel so it just touches the ground to prevent spinning, but no serious load on it, and torque all 6 bolts. Yes, 6. If you do the every other bolt pattern on a 5 lug, if you do 6, you know you have done them all. If the 6th doesn't click imediately, I know the wheel was not seated correctly, and will usually jack it back up and take it off and see if something is wrong before trying again. When I am realy tired I may do all 10 of 5 just to be sure.

I do this sequence every time, only varying the number of bolts I tighten from 6-10. Even if I have a jack point that raises two corners at a time, I always finish the one that toucches first and then move on to the second with the same sequence.

Amen, that pretty much sounds like my routine. The only issue was that last night it was late, and I had a bunch of jackasses and their milkshakes distracting me while I was trying to figure out what the dilly was with my steering rack. Plus with the added wierdness of lifting the car from the center to remove one tire, I just forgot to torque things down before heading inside.

Not that I'm blaming the guys that were over, I take full responsibility, since it's my car, and my job to make sure things are safe to drive on. All I can say is *thank God* nothing happened, other than me feeling like a huge fool.

[Dean]

Sorry, I couldn't resist...

"You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is 'never get involved in a land war in asia,' but only slightly less well-known is this: 'Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line!', and even slightly less well known 'Never let a bunch of jackasses and their milkshakes distract you when your safety is at stake'"

[MattR]

Crap! You are lucky, glad nothing bad happened.



<-------------*jackass with milkshake*

[sperry]

Originally Posted by Dean

Sorry, I couldn't resist...

"You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is 'never get involved in a land war in asia,' but only slightly less well-known is this: 'Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line!', and even slightly less well known 'Never let a bunch of jackasses and their milkshakes distract you when your safety is at stake'"

INCONCEIVABLE!!

[Dean]

Originally Posted by sperry

INCONCEIVABLE!!

I do not think that word means what you think it means.... OK, I'll stop now. I am glad nothing bad happened... Were the lug holes blown out at all?

[sperry]

Originally Posted by Dean

I do not think that word means what you think it means.... OK, I'll stop now. I am glad nothing bad happened... Were the lug holes blown out at all?

I didn't inspect it, I was too tired and too freaked out last night (freaked out that somehow I didn't lose a rim off the car) that I just torqued 'em down and left it. I'll take a look later today when I go to get my Azenis mounted.

[AtomicLabMonkey]

:shock: You had teh Lady Luck with you yesterday.

[MikeSTI]

note to self get a torque wrench and check lugs :shock: I saw a truck lose a wheel once on a freeway off ramp. It was the RF and the driver didnt know it was even off untill they got all the way around the off ramp and BOOOM the hole front end just started plowing.

it is a good thing no one got hurt and now we can still learn from the mistake...............I think wait I'm forgetting already...........yah thats right no jackasses with milkshakes while working on cars...........no wait that wasnt it..........CHECK YOUR LUGS.

so wheres a good place to pick up a torque wrench any suggestions?
Oh and maybe a good floor jack?

[Dean]

I actually had loose lug nuts, as well as riding in a Student's car at Sears Point with them. They are not a big thing to worry about, especially on cars with hubcentric wheels like the Subys as they give a ton of warning.

The start by feeling like a slight shimmy, progressing to what feels like a warped rottor only the brakes aren't on. This all happens in only a couple threads worth of backing out.

On hub centrics, you will often not even hurt the wheel. My Student's car went around Sears for almost two laps from the first hint, one at full to 1/2 speed, and 3/4 well below normal. All that and only the thinest portion of the lug holes had some deformed aluminum. It was easliy cleaned up with a file, and still had 95%+ of the seating surface, and as far as I know continues to work to this day. I don't thinnk the lugs had backed out mor than 2-3 turns either as I recall.

[AtomicLabMonkey]

Originally Posted by Dean

I actually had loose lug nuts, as well as riding in a Student's car at Sears Point with them. They are not a big thing to worry about, especially on cars with hubcentric wheels like the Subys as they give a ton of warning.

:shock: I have to disagree there, untorqued lugnuts are a good way to break the wheel studs and have a wheel go flying at speed. Lugnuts have a high torque value for a good reason (and the reason is not to just keep them from loosening) - that high torque value imparts a preload on the studs, and consequently a clamping (frictional) force between the flat surfaces of the wheel, rotor and hub. That clamping force is what resists all the static & dynamic wheel loads, rather than the studs alone supporting the outside loadings as simple shear pins; if the clamping force isn't there, the studs are going to take a cyclical beating every time the wheel goes around and stand a good chance of failing from fatigue.

[Dean]

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

:shock: I have to disagree there, untorqued lugnuts are a good way to break the wheel studs and have a wheel go flying at speed. Lugnuts have a high torque value for a good reason (and the reason is not to just keep them from loosening) - that high torque value imparts a preload on the studs, and consequently a clamping (frictional) force between the flat surfaces of the wheel, rotor and hub. That clamping force is what resists all the static & dynamic wheel loads, rather than the studs alone supporting the outside loadings as simple shear pins; if the clamping force isn't there, the studs are going to take a cyclical beating every time the wheel goes around and stand a good chance of failing from fatigue.

While I agree as to there function, on a hubcentric wheel, the hubcenter can absorb much of the load from a loose wheel. Yes, if Gary had loose lugs, he might well snap them in a lap, but it is far more likely that he would feel the issue in the wheel long before they snapped off IMHO. Cars with non-hubcentric wheels are much more susceptible to stud brakage in just about every situation I can think of.

Yes, they use very strong studs, but even NASCAR cars don't snap studs often and they leave lug bolts loose all the time, and aren't hubcentric.

I stand by my assertion that you will have plenty of warning before a wheel flys off.

[Theo]

The reason I missed the last stead event was due to stripped lug nuts. My left rear had 2 stripped out of 4. These are 'new' studs and bolts. The stud and nuts both lost threads. They went on tight....

The Mag rims I'm using have mag lugnuts. They suck.

Glad you are OK Scott. I lost a wheel at 80 mph in my old ford Falcon. I crossed 4 lanes of traffic before I finally came to a stop. No one was hurt but the car took some road rash.

Theo

[LetItRev]

what size socket fits the stock lugnuts on the WRX? I have a 3/4" I use on another car. It would be sweet if I didn't have to buy another deep socket.

Franz

[Dean]

Originally Posted by LetItRev

what size socket fits the stock lugnuts on the WRX? I have a 3/4" I use on another car. It would be sweet if I didn't have to buy another deep socket.

Franz

'02 stock lugs are 19mm which is basically 3/4" so you should be OK.