Camber Issue

[cody]

Okay, I'll stop spamming other people's threads with my tire rubbing issues.

So I just took off my fat azz Azenis RT-615's (225/45/17 on 17X7.5 ET48 Enkei's) (and replaced them with my AVS ES100's (215/45/17 on Rota 17X7.5's ET 4 and not only was the rear passenger side tire rubbing against the fender (which was obvious), but it appears the driver side rear tire was rubbing the chassis just barely (opposite side). So apparently my rear camber is a little off.

Anybody know if a little bit of camber can be added/removed without adding camber bolts? It should be currently around -1 in the rear since a year ago my buddy used his fancy home alignment tools to confirm the alignment I got two years ago did indeed get me -1 in the rear (no camber bolts used). Unfortunately the alignment shop installed the Eibach camber bolts I gave them in the front instead of the rear. I don't know why since the fronts are already adjustable from the factory. Anybody know if the camber bolts from the factory can get as much adjustability as the Eibach's? The eibach's claim they can get you +/- 1 degree of camber.

Could it have messed up the camber in the rear when I removed the three strut top bolts (on each strut tower) to install my Whiteline strut tower bar? Or maybe I need an alignment due to my off at RFR or when I was offroading or somthing. Tire wear seems normal though.

[Kevin M]

Just move the camber bolts to the rear. Or buy another set of them, they're cheap enough and easy to install.

[Dean]

Did they give back the factory bolts? If so, just put those back in, and put the aftermarkets in the rear. Either way, bolts are cheap, just get a second set...

You may be able to fudge a little by lossening both spindle - strut bolts and putting torque on the spindle while you re tighten them, but that won't be real exact.

Yes, there is probably a little play in the top mounts. same thing as the spindle... Losten, apply horzontal pressure, tighten.

Not sure anybody's bolts are better than anybody else's but you can use two in each bracket if needed.

[cody]

I'm just wondering if I should leave the Eibach's in the front or buy replacement OEM camber bolts for the front.

What's a good way to look up OEM parts online? I put in a message to subaruparts.com, but they haven't replied and I think the ones Lithia ordered for me are for the rear according to a google search. (PN: 20540AA100). Also I've read that after a couple uses, the Eibach bolts can start slipping. Apparently the OEM and H&R are the beefier ones, but I assume at the expense of adjustability...just a guess though.

[cody]

Originally Posted by Dean

Did they give back the factory bolts? If so, just put those back in, and put the aftermarkets in the rear.

No, they didn't give them to me and it was a year later before I learned what they had done so I assumed they were gone.

I would just buy some OEM adjustable bolts and some aftermarket ones and drop it off at Sid's but if he has to install them, the alignment could get as expensive as $300 he was saying.

You may be able to fudge a little by lossening both spindle - strut bolts and putting torque on the spindle while you re tighten them, but that won't be real exact.

Yes, there is probably a little play in the top mounts. same thing as the spindle... Losten, apply horzontal pressure, tighten.

Not sure anybody's bolts are better than anybody else's but you can use two in each bracket if needed.

I think I'll leave all of that to Sid. Unfortunately I didn't do my own suspension so it's all Greek to me.

[Dean]

subaruparts.com has a parts lookup on the top for Impreza, you just need to sign up for an account.

20578F $3.75 Adjusting-bolt
20584D $0.75 Washer-front strut,lower
N350013 $0.46 Self locking nut

Might be able to get them from Rancho Cordova for less, and faster.

[cody]

Originally Posted by Dean

subaruparts.com has a parts lookup on the top for Impreza, you just need to sign up for an account.

20578F $3.75 Adjusting-bolt
20584D $0.75 Washer-front strut,lower
N350013 $0.46 Self locking nut

Might be able to get them from Rancho Cordova for less, and faster.

Are those SOA part numbers? And are those what I need to get the front back to stock so I can move the Eibach's to the back?

Another option is to spend $40 for adjustable bolts for the upper and lower adjustment points in the front from Tire Rack and move the Eibach's to the back.

http://www.tirerack.com/suspension/s...260&perfCode=S

[sperry]

H&R Camber bolts are +/- 3 degrees for about $35.

[cody]

I just ordered the OEM bolts for the front and I'll move the Eibach's to the rear. I think anything greater than what the stockers can achieve would proably cause tire wear...plus I'm cheap.

[cody]

Is there a setup that allows you to add camber for the track and take it back away for the drive home? Just curious. I'm thinking camber plates or somthing inexpensive...

[MikeK]

You're correct, camber plates will do that.

[cody]

So you could have the alignment shop set the plates to "Zero" and use the camber bolts to make things even on both sides, and then easily adjust camber as you see fit at the strut tops? How easy is it to make these adjustments?

What camber plates would you recomend for my KYB AGX/ Eibach setup?

[MikeK]

Most of the guys here set the camber plates to 0 for their street alignment, then use the plates to add an extra couple of degrees for autox and the track.

They are easy to adjust, you just need to take the weight off the front wheels. 10 seconds with a floor jack

I am not sure which plates will fit with that combo, try searching around in the suspension forum on nasioc.

[cody]

Cool, thanks Mike. I also better RTFRB to see if they're ESP legal.

[Kevin M]

They are, they're considered part of the strut. Search some of Scott's posts, he's explained the effects of using camber plates to adjust alignment more than once here.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

They are, they're considered part of the strut. Search some of Scott's posts, he's explained the effects of using camber plates to adjust alignment more than once here.

Most of the stuff I've posted is a result of me and Dean (mostly Dean) spending hours in the garage w/ our home-made alignment tools experimenting.

Basically, set the car up w/ the camber plates set to zero. Have an alignment shop set the car to something like -1.2f/-1.2r, .5 deg toe in front, zero toe rear. Then at the track, jack the front end up and go -1.5 or -2 more degrees in the front. Because the way the tie-rods are designed, adding negative camber will toe out the front wheels. So you will get around -3 deg front camber, a little front toe out (you'll have to learn to drive a car that's a little darty under braking), and -1.2/zero toe rear.

That's a pretty great compromise... for just a little work before the event adjusting the camber plates, you'll gain a ton on turn-in, much better front tire wear (on both the track and the street), and more ultimate cornering grip.

[cody]

Originally Posted by sperry

Most of the stuff I've posted is a result of me and Dean (mostly Dean) spending hours in the garage w/ our home-made alignment tools experimenting.

Basically, set the car up w/ the camber plates set to zero. Have an alignment shop set the car to something like -1.2f/-1.2r, .5 deg toe in front, zero toe rear. Then at the track, jack the front end up and go -1.5 or -2 more degrees in the front. Because the way the tie-rods are designed, adding negative camber will toe out the front wheels. So you will get around -3 deg front camber, a little front toe out (you'll have to learn to drive a car that's a little darty under braking), and -1.2/zero toe rear.

That's a pretty great compromise... for just a little work before the event adjusting the camber plates, you'll gain a ton on turn-in, much better front tire wear (on both the track and the street), and more ultimate cornering grip.

Interesting Scott. Will that hold true even though my car isn't dropped as much as most?

[sperry]

Originally Posted by cody

Interesting Scott. Will that hold true even though my car isn't dropped as much as most?

The ride height doens't have an effect on the static camber/toe of the car. What will be different is the amount of dynamic (positive) camber the car gains as the suspension travels... but it's actually *better* geometrically if the car isn't really low.

[cody]

I think my suspension is softer than a stock STi's too if that matters.

I assume I'd watn to max out caster too?

[sperry]

Originally Posted by cody

I think my suspension is softer than a stock STi's too if that matters.

I assume I'd watn to max out caster too?

Caster's not adjustable unless you buy some caster/camber plates instead of just camber plates.

[cody]

Would you suggest I get caster/camber plates, or just camber plates?

[sperry]

Originally Posted by cody

Would you suggest I get caster/camber plates, or just camber plates?

The only caster/camber plates I've had any experience with are the Ground Control ones... $300, over mounted (so they'll lower the front of the car like 1.5" since you don't have height adjustable suspension), requires drilling 2 extra holes in the car, and probably won't work with your KYB's w/o talking to GC and seeing if they can send you the bushings specific to your struts.

http://www.ground-control-store.com/...p/II=149/CA=90

However, I've been *extremely* happy w/ the guys over at Ground Control, as they've been very knowledgeable and helpful with my suspension setup, so I bet they could get you something that works, but IMO you're probably better off going with a camber-only plate that is known to work. In addition, the GC plates tend to be noisey (lots of clunking and clacking), whereas something like a Cusco plate (I think those work w/ the KYB's) will be much quieter.

[cody]

Okay, doesn't seem worth the $$$ and hassle to get the a little caster. Thanks Scott!

[Kevin M]

Cody, you're planning on coilovers down the road right? Make sure that you get some that are compatible with the suspension you intend to get, or just wait til then to get the plates. The other problem is that sotck-diamter sprigns and stock type struts allow for very little camber adjustment up top- like maybe half a degree. I was throwing money at Nate back in the day for some strut tops, and he talked me out of them for that reason, as I had Prodrive OE style suspension.

[cody]

I'm not planning on getting coilovers. I want to keep my car as versatile as possible...

Only half a degree of adjustment? Hmmmm I'll have to check and see how much they cost but, that's really not worthwhile...plus I would like to keep my toe at zero on the streets...