Front Swaybar

[NevadaSTi]

According to the rule book. In stock catatgory I can change out the front swaybar, but not the rear swaybar.

13.7 ANTI-ROLL (SWAY) BARS
A. For front anti-roll (sway) bars:
1. Substitution, addition or removal of any front anti-roll bars is
permitted.
2. Substitution, addition or removal of anti-roll bars may serve
no other purpose than that of an anti-roll bar.
3. The use of any bushing material is permitted.
4. No modification to the body, frame or other components to
accommodate anti-roll bar addition or substitution is allowed,
except for the drilling of holes for mounting bolts. Nonstandard
lateral members which connect between the brackets
for the bar are not permitted.
B. Rear anti-roll (sway) bars:
1. May not be removed, replaced, or modified in any way.


So, here is my questions.

What would be the advantage of putting on a stiffer front swaybar on my car?

Would it help correct some of my understeer problems?

[Nick Koan]

Adding a front anti-sway bar on your car will make the understeer more, not less. The advantage of a front sway bar is to help flatten out the handling of the car and take out some of the oversteer a stiffer rear sway bar adds.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by nKoan

Adding a front anti-sway bar on your car will make the understeer more, not less. The advantage of a front sway bar is to help flatten out the handling of the car and take out some of the oversteer a stiffer rear sway bar adds.

Bite you're tongue!

The current emprical evidence is that a *massive* front swaybar on an STI does so much to prevent the poor dynamic camber inherrant in the STI's MacStrut design that is actually *increases* front end grip, and helps the car to turn, despite the normally accepted logic that a stiffer bar creates understeer.

The AS STI guys are have great success running a huge front bar and big sticky tires. Search NASIOC and IWSTI for the details, but the bottom line is, big (like super big, like 29mm super big) front swaybars are a good thing in AS.

[NevadaSTi]

hum, sounds like there is a mod for AS that will make difference.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by NevadaSTi

hum, sounds like there is a mod for AS that will make difference.

Don't forget, you can run 265 width tires on stock rims on '05+ cars... if you wanna talk about AS mods that are worthwhile... you simply can't beat more tire!

[NevadaSTi]

more tire equals more price. I already have another set of re070's with the nubbies still on them for $300.

[A1337STI]

go for bigger tires and sell me your extra set of RE070s !
I've seen whiteline suggested for front sway a lot on IWSTI. on guy i think suggested greator then 29. i think he said up to the 32 mm whiteline (stock is like 20 right?)

[Kevin M]

Originally Posted by sperry

Bite you're tongue!

The current emprical evidence is that a *massive* front swaybar on an STI does so much to prevent the poor dynamic camber inherrant in the STI's MacStrut design that is actually *increases* front end grip, and helps the car to turn, despite the normally accepted logic that a stiffer bar creates understeer.

The AS STI guys are have great success running a huge front bar and big sticky tires. Search NASIOC and IWSTI for the details, but the bottom line is, big (like super big, like 29mm super big) front swaybars are a good thing in AS.

Two things:

YOUR
and
INHERENT



Moving on, Brian, you would do well to consider the jumbo AS Strano bar discussed by Dean in the other thread. Given your finish last weekend in PAX and AS, it's definitely going to help your times enough to be worth the compromises for daily use.

[Nick Koan]

Originally Posted by sperry

Bite you're tongue!

The current emprical evidence is that a *massive* front swaybar on an STI does so much to prevent the poor dynamic camber inherrant in the STI's MacStrut design that is actually *increases* front end grip, and helps the car to turn, despite the normally accepted logic that a stiffer bar creates understeer.

The AS STI guys are have great success running a huge front bar and big sticky tires. Search NASIOC and IWSTI for the details, but the bottom line is, big (like super big, like 29mm super big) front swaybars are a good thing in AS.

Hah, if only I had what I originally wrote, but I got rid of cause it didn't make sense. I know a lot of people on LegacyGT are saying the same thing. It still will cause you to understeer but it'll give you crisper turn in. So, yes you can still understeer like normal, but the turn in is much better and flatter and is overall a benefit.

I was thinking that didn't make sense, so I just deleted it.

[Kevin M]

Originally Posted by A1337STI

go for bigger tires and sell me your extra set of RE070s !
I've seen whiteline suggested for front sway a lot on IWSTI. on guy i think suggested greator then 29. i think he said up to the 32 mm whiteline (stock is like 20 right?)

Whiteline has a 27 or 29mm bar, something like that, but for AS you would want the 32mm Strano bar. For other classes you probably wouldn't want to go higher than 22 to 24mm.

[NevadaSTi]

Finally found it. At $200 it sounds like a good deal. I read some threads on IWSTI and Nosiac about how well these bars perform on autocross. Might have to buy one next payday.

http://www.iwsti.com/reviews/showpro...&cat=18&page=1

[tysonK]

Yeah you should get a real AS mod:

http://www.hoosiertire.com/

[Kevin M]

I didn't know it was hollow. It actually may have an effective stiffness less than Whiteline's XRD bar.

[NevadaSTi]

Originally Posted by tysonK

Yeah you should get a real AS mod:

http://www.hoosiertire.com/

I would love to do that. I don't think it would be practical considering I live in Garnderville. Talk about a pain in my rear to have to bring an extra set of rims with hoosiers or kuhmo victoracers with me.

Financially speaking, I am not in a position where I can do that..

Once I get the new motor in my f250, I might be able to borrow a trailer to tow my car up there with race slicks on it. But, I don't see that happening any time soon.

[Kevin M]

Finances are an excuse, hauling a set of tires to the events is not. You can fit 3 sets of mounted tires in your car dude.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by nKoan

Hah, if only I had what I originally wrote, but I got rid of cause it didn't make sense. I know a lot of people on LegacyGT are saying the same thing. It still will cause you to understeer but it'll give you crisper turn in. So, yes you can still understeer like normal, but the turn in is much better and flatter and is overall a benefit.

I was thinking that didn't make sense, so I just deleted it.

On the STI at least, the big front bar does not "help turn in but then oversteer", it 100% reduces understeer... better turn in, better steady-state cornering, and better exit. At least that's what the AS autocross guys are finding out.

[Dean]

Read this thread til your head explodes. This bar is da bomb... Somewhere in there is mentioned that even the 29mm bar can't touch it...

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=719115

[bruspeed]

So, this seems like you would have to run 265's to gain the grip needed to make the bar work right? I might be going about it all wrong though.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by bruspeed

So, this seems like you would have to run 265's to gain the grip needed to make the bar work right? I might be going about it all wrong though.

Shouldn't be necessary. The stiff front bar should help the suspension geometry, which wil help any size tire maximize its grip.

[dknv]

And for what ever the combination of stiffer front bar and other bits does for you, be aware you may need to (re)learn to drive the car to take advantage of any improvements. Just an example, if you've gotten used to braking late throwing your car into the turn, then accelerating out, you may need to brake earlier, start your turn and acceleration sooner. (disclaimer: this is only a wild example, your results may vary. )

[NevadaSTi]

It makes since though, I kind of figured out I would probably need to relearn my car. But I have a lot of things I still need to learn in the first place anyway.

[SlickNick112]

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

Whiteline has a 27 or 29mm bar, something like that, but for AS you would want the 32mm Strano bar. For other classes you probably wouldn't want to go higher than 22 to 24mm.

I think the biggest bar available from whiteline is a 27mm front sway bar (XSF36XXZ). This is straight from whiteline website, that was updated on 3/29/06, all applications from the MY05 STi remained the same for MY06 STi. I'd love a chance to give that 32mm Strano bar a shot. Where can I pick one of those up?

[Dean]

Read the above linked thread, or go to the Strano web site... http://www.stranoparts.com/

[NevadaSTi]

Does number 4 of this rule specifically mean I can't upgrade the endlinks of the FSB?

[bruspeed]

No. ^