AutoX April 14, 15

[Nick Koan]

Don't forget the badging too.

Seriously though, when you start showing up in the top spots like that, the rule book gets a better chance of proverbially being thrown into your face. There were also a lot of ESP competitors and also now PAX competitors that might not be as forgiving.

Personally, if I were you, I'd err on the safe side and either go back to a stock grille and badging or into SM.

[NevadaSTi]

I was gonna say, don't forget about badging also. But I think it should be said that all the people around here who are running badge-less should get their bagdes put back on. Whether you have them or not.

[JonnydaJibba]

Pssh, eff badges.


(let's see me eat my words when I can't run novice anymore)

[cody]

What happens if sombody protests me? How does that work?

[Kevin M]

If the protest is upheld, you will be disqualified and not appear in the results.

[MPREZIV]

Yeah, some of those rules seem a bit "mis-directed" to say the least, but it's one of them things we gotta live with. Trust me, I know...

[cody]

Well honestly I wasn't too worried about getting protested...as long as I'm still able to compete. Like I told Brian when he got a ride on Sunday, if sombody feels they need to win by protesting an aesthetic mod that does nothing for performance, let 'em.

But I think swapping grills should be pretty easy. The stock one has a broken tab, but I don't think it's an important tab and even if it is, that's why god made zip ties. And I have the badges so I think I'll just glue them to a strip of magnet sheet.

It's funny but I'm less concerned with getting protested than I am with just not being a dick. It sounds like you guys are saying it's kind of a dick move to compete while knowingly breaking the rules. I can see that I guess.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by cody

It's funny but I'm less concerned with getting protested than I am with just not being a dick. It sounds like you guys are saying it's kind of a dick move to compete while knowingly breaking the rules. I can see that I guess.

To be honest, that's really what it boils down to. For example, does Cory's C/F hood really make that much of a difference? Sure it's a bunch lighter, but if you're cool to run with your grill overlooked, then why not overlook the hood too? ...next thing you know, I'm running for the CSP championship. Everyone knows it wouldn't go down like that, but we also know "the rules are the rules". When I was in STX, I too had to take the STi grill off and put back on the OEM one.

[Nick Koan]

And I remember you do that every event too Scott

What a pain, swap a grille for the weekend, swap the STi one back. Not like it takes a whole lot of time, but its still annoying.

[JonnydaJibba]

The main gripe I have with those rules is that it's not like a car debadged like mine or Cory's competes with the cars in class that the debadging puts us in. I mean there should be a kind of progession in bumping up classes for that kinda thing. Like if I'm in a stock class and I have a CF hood, I should go up one class, not to SM... But maybe I'm just noob babbling.

[cody]

I'm pretty sure that would add to the complexity and nobody wants that. The fact is that anybody can obtain the proper badges and body panels and compete along with everyone else. If this sport didn't encorporate so much homogenous requirements, it would get way more complex to the point that nobody could figure anything out...not that I can figure things out by RTFRB anyway.

[JonnydaJibba]

That make sense. But stupid sense. That would create extra boloney.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by JonnydaJibba

The main gripe I have with those rules is that it's not like a car debadged like mine or Cory's competes with the cars in class that the debadging puts us in. I mean there should be a kind of progession in bumping up classes for that kinda thing. Like if I'm in a stock class and I have a CF hood, I should go up one class, not to SM... But maybe I'm just noob babbling.

NASA time trials rules work this way. Each mod is assigned a point value. Add up all the points and figure out what class you're in. It's a cool idea, but nearly impossible to police, and just about as hard to figure out what class you're in without having an online form.

[Dean]

I am going to run SM this year due to my VF43. I have not been able to document that the engine is the same in 2007 vs. 2004, so technically, my Stock Turbo swap is not covered under update backdate. I probably made a mistake when I decided on the VF43, but to late now.

[soap box]
IMHO Rules are just that, Rules. No matter how stupid you believe one to be, they are what they are.

There really are no shades of gray with most of them.

If you knowingly run with something that does not comply with the rules, you are cheating, no matter how you justify it even if nobody protests.

I almost put on a full ALK for the track instead of the offset bushing and was going to resign myself to FP. I also thought about just running RNP all year.

If you just want to drive, you can, RNP twice a day and compare your times in any way you want.

If you want to compete, you need to follow the rules. That is what competition is all about. People agreeing to compete against one another based on a given set of rules.

Nobody is forcing you to autocross, or pick a class to run in, in fact we specifically give you the option not to worry about rules except for those related to safety called RNP.

Complaining on this forum will not change National rules or regional ones for that matter. Want to change either, get involved, and propose changes. New people getting involved is what spawned the creation of SM and ST classes after countless years of minimal changes to the "classic" classes.
[/soap box]

I pulled off a top 10 season PAX in a bone stock Miata. No $1000 shocks, extreme alignment, and not even the "Right" model/option package.

Stop bitching...

Shut up and drive.

And if you are willing to listen, I will certainly try and help you drive better.

[tysonK]

Here's the way I look at mickey mouse rules like the de-badging rule:

I look at it as buffer to help all the other rules. If you are simply told to go look the rule book b/c your car has an illegal grill or re-badging you are more likely to read *all* the rules associated with your class and others. We talk about the self policing, well we wouldn't have "police" if some us didn't read the rule book. Like others have said when you step up to a more intense auto-x arena you'll be better off to know the rules, and the only reason you know the rules is b/c you were told about your de-badging or wanted to find out for yourself?

[MikeK]

Originally Posted by Dean

I am going to run SM this year due to my VF43. I have not been able to document that the engine is the same in 2007 vs. 2004, so technically, my Stock Turbo swap is not covered under update backdate. I probably made a mistake when I decided on the VF43, but to late now.

Oh snap! You definately picked the wrong turbo in that case. Is it too late to try and sell it used and buy something else?

[Joeyy]

Originally Posted by M3n2c3

I won't be out either day. I've been sick all week.

Check up. Are you feeling better?

[Joeyy]

Originally Posted by MPREZIV

Yeah, some of those rules seem a bit "mis-directed" to say the least, but it's one of them things we gotta live with. Trust me, I know...

Sometimes you even have to put up with people sticking things on your car.

[MPREZIV]

Yeah, but the Token magnet is AWESOME!!!!

[Nick Koan]

Originally Posted by MPREZIV

Yeah, but the Token magnet is AWESOME!!!!

Speaking of which, I forgot to make a post I've been waiting to make ever since the Australian GP this year.

Originally Posted by sperry

Results are up on www.renoscca.org.

Me and Cory took down SM in a 2.5RS. Also we beat all you ESP punks in RAW time with what's basically a DSP car w/ a carbon fiber hood.

[David Hobbs]That's the darkest face we've ever seen on an SM podium[/David Hobbs]

[MPREZIV]

Very nice Nick!

[dknv]

Originally Posted by MikeK

Oh snap! You definately picked the wrong turbo in that case. Is it too late to try and sell it used and buy something else?

Why, to run AS or BSP? I figure you SM guys would be welcoming Dean to the fast side ....

[dknv]

Originally Posted by Dean

..If you want to compete, you need to follow the rules. That is what competition is all about. People agreeing to compete against one another based on a given set of rules.

Nobody is forcing you to autocross, or pick a class to run in, in fact we specifically give you the option not to worry about rules except for those related to safety called RNP.

Complaining on this forum will not change National rules or regional ones for that matter. Want to change either, get involved, and propose changes. New people getting involved is what spawned the creation of SM and ST classes after countless years of minimal changes to the "classic" classes.

+1
Especially important to be squeaky clean on the rules if you are planning to compete at Hawthorne this year. I've never seen so much moaning & bitching & whining at an event about this or that being unfair, than I've seen at the N-S Challenge.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by dknv

Why, to run AS or BSP? I figure you SM guys would be welcoming Dean to the fast side ....

I think Mike thinks Dean's turbo will be too small for SM competition. I actually think it will be just fine, as no one in SM seems able to really get deep into the boost on larger turbos at autocross. I don't expect the SM cars to be faster than Matt in BSP.

[dknv]

Oh and speaking of N-S Challenge - MikeK: please tell me your car will be sporting a sticker for your sponsor?